I was wondering if a debate could be set up about schools and what they should teach. I think that all primary schools should teach kids sign language. I am not so sure about how appropiate it is to teach kids sex education. I think it should be parents who teach that. Also I think that parents should perhaps have more interaction with their kids at school. Parents should get time off work to do this I think. If parents could go into the class once a week then it would help build up the bond between parents and kids and it would also perhaps show which kids are in dangerous homes.

Im not so sure. An optional Sign Language class, as an extra curricular activity would be fine, but more than likely poorly attended. It should be taught at summer school (it might be already), and in other 'out of school term' groups such as youth clubs etc, but i dont think it should take up 'school time'. The parents evening is enough I reckon, Parents should have enough time to bond with the kids after school and at weekends, and on the ridiculously long school holidays! As for the dangerous homes thing, i dont think it would work. When a home is bad enough to be dangerous, it's likely that the parents will have enough control for the kid to 'behave', regardless of the situation.

I have just realised im disagreeing with you on everything. Im sorry, really, it's just my opinions, and I dont have kids. (Though I was at primary school only 10years ago!)

I should point out that I don't have kids either.

Why should 'school time' not be taken up with learning sign language? School time is currently taken up with learning foreign languages such as French and German so why not sign language? As you said, if it was optional I don't think that many kids would get involved. There are deaf people who live in our communities who are being discriminated against because of something that they can't control. Surely it would be easy to teach all kids sign language at a young age.

Not many parents that I know spend time bonding with their kids. They talk at them rather then to them. Could this be because society doesn't dictate that parents should take an interest in their children? The parents have maternity leave when the child is born and then quite often both parents are out at work whilst the child is at school. Some parents don't get home till after the kids who go to someone else's house straight after school. Having one afternoon when employers pay for parents to go into the childs school for a couple of hours every week would give much needed bonding time and would help relax the parents imho.

Identifying children in danger is difficult as you said. The government have suggested lots of different options to try and deal with this but so far non have been successful. Perhaps this could help. If parents repeatedly fail to show up without good reason it would set alarm bells ringing. If parents show up and have been drinking then so would that. It could help.

Why should 'school time' not be taken up with learning sign language? School time is currently taken up with learning foreign languages such as French and German so why not sign language? As you said, if it was optional I don't think that many kids would get involved. There are deaf people who live in our communities who are being discriminated against because of something that they can't control. Surely it would be easy to teach all kids sign language at a young age.

This might just be my school, but we didnt do Foreign Languages at Primary School, we had them in 1st year Secondary, and I based what I said on that, and the fact that i thought the Primary curriculum was pertty well balanced, challenging and stimulating, but not Over-Taxing for young minds.

I think it's a bit harsh to say the deaf are being discriminated against because sign language isnt taught in schools, as there are many arguments along the same line, that such-and-such should be taught in schools etc. There maybe should be a place for sign language, but because it isnt, doesnt mean the deaf are being discriminated.



Not many parents that I know spend time bonding with their kids. They talk at them rather then to them. Could this be because society doesn't dictate that parents should take an interest in their children? The parents have maternity leave when the child is born and then quite often both parents are out at work whilst the child is at school. Some parents don't get home till after the kids who go to someone else's house straight after school. Having one afternoon when employers pay for parents to go into the childs school for a couple of hours every week would give much needed bonding time and would help relax the parents imho.

There is no way employee's would pay for their staff to go see their child who will be between 4/5 and 11, for an afternoon.


Identifying children in danger is difficult as you said. The government have suggested lots of different options to try and deal with this but so far non have been successful. Perhaps this could help. If parents repeatedly fail to show up without good reason it would set alarm bells ringing. If parents show up and have been drinking then so would that. It could help.

It could, but I think it is very unlikely, imho. I honestly think it is an extreme measure for very little gain. There are classic signs of a child being harmed, or in danger of being harmed, and i believe all teachers are made aware of these signs. I think the current way of Primary Education is just about right. Secondary School is a completely different matter mind......

the school where my lad goes (god bless it and all who teach him) has a serperate unit for kids with special needs and a high proportion of them are indeed deaf or at the least hard of hearing.

Due to this situation the school has always taught ALL pupils to sign and not just as a side lesson, but all communal activities are signed to the school.

assemblies, presenatations and most importantly the school concerts are signed by ALL those who partake in them.

the benefits of this that i have witnessed alone are fantastic, hearing impaired children can not enjoy school activities but can also be a full part of them.
these same children are not "segregated" to their own "type" at playtime and lunch breaks due to the lack of a way to comunicate, all the kids at this scholl can camunicate to all other kids.

Even outside of school, we have on occasion met with people who have hearing difficulties and without the ability to sign that my lad has got a conversation with them would have been a lot more dificult (though i sometimes wonder why every deaf person my son has translated for us seem to think my name is tO**SR).

got to add at this point too that in no way does it seem to detract from the normal studies they have to do

No kids myself but I think learning sign language would be a great idea, started at a young age it would also be a fun lesson for the kids. I don't think deaf people are discriminated against because the vast majority of us don't know how to sign, I think thats a strong and unfair statement, but having sign language incorperated into the school curiculum would be beneficial.

Am all for parents being involved in their childs education, but it just is not feasable for. How can companys afford to let every parent have time off from work to go visit their childs school??? and further more is it really needed??? Parents have the opportunities to get involved in the school if they so wish.....parents are always being asked to help out where they can, and I think those parents that way inclined do take part, and those that don't do so out of choice and work commitments. My parents didn't get heavily involved with my schooling and quite frankly I wouldn't have wanted them too. That was my time, to learn, to grow, to become independant....I think time away from parents is just as important as time with.

Teaching sign language in my opinion should be optional and as long as it did not take away valuable time for the main activities of Letracy and Numaracy ( spellings ??) and yes it would be Fun for the kids I am sure. I do not think that Deaf or hard of hearing people arer descriminated, yes they some times lose out on the conversations. I myself is hard of hearing so can say with some experience.

As to parents taking active part in their children's education. Well here again I will have to partially disagree that they should spent time in school. At primary level Kids are just about learning to be independant and away from the parents and that is just as imprtant learning. Agree that many parents now days have work commitments and timings can be very difficult. But at the same time they have to plan their priorities as well. We can't have Longl working day and then at the end of the school year complaining that their child is not acheiving the standadrd expcted by them. As it is not 100% responsibility of the Teacher, parents have to play a part in their child's education as well.

I'm a bit busy at the moment, but will be back to post my opinions later.

I have actually just been accepted onto a PGCE course to teach primary. Lock up your kids!

A lot of insight for someone without kids.
I found that when I was a single parent and working full time in Leeds I has precious little time with my kids at all. By the time I collected them from after school club and fed them it was nigh on 9 o'clock some nights. We were all knackered all of the time due to late night and early mornings. I did my best at weekends but I honestly find it far easier now that I don't do a full working week, and am no longer single. And I'm very aware of the time I should be spending with them. What happens to the kids of the parents who aren't so concerned?

When kids go to playgroups at toddler age parents are often asked to muck in on a rota. If parents were expected to do this throughout primary school I think it would be beneficial all round. I know parents have jobs to do, and most families need the income of both parents to stay afloat, but the way we work has to give in order for our kids to have the attention the deserve.

I'm all for sign language being taught in schools, but I think more emphasis needs to be put on foreign languages at the moment. I also think schools should teach MORE sex education than they do now. Study after study has shown that the more people know the safer they are. Parents should obviously be involved too, but not all parents will bother.

I also like the idea that PE/Sport time in primary education will be increased to 4 hours by 2010. Sport in school is a disgrace right now.

i think the problem is that there just isnt enough time in the current school year to see all the things taught that people would like to see so my simple solution would be less holiday time and longer school days.

I think that a lot of time needs to be spent opn the basics and aiding kids become book literate and to interest them in reading instead of spending vast amounts of time watching tv, playing computers etc.

Language skills are very important in this age of texting where the art of spelling and grammar are being lost ( i know of the irony before anyone points it out thanks). I know this from correcting state exmas eaxh summer and while results are improving literacy levels are falling, the only reason for this being that teachers are covering their own asses by dishing out marks much easier than they used to.

I haven't read what most of ye have written btw so forgive me for any over lapping of content, but one of the mpost imprtant things in school should be health class where kids learn about proper diet, exercise, the danger of drugs, etc so that we can hopefully nip in the bud some of the widespread problems of society such as obesity, drug related incidents, etc before they can occur.

Teaching kids to be socially inclusive and the values of a varied society should also be paramount in order to try and curb the growth of racial tension. I could go on and on but won't as i fear i will drive ye all crazy on this issue.

Personally at Primary School i wouldnt have been interested in the slightest in learning sign language. From my not so long ago experience (8 years is it? 9 maybe..) Primary school was all about play time and kids worked through the day merely to get to play / lunch / break quicker. i dont know therefore if its something they'd fully appreciate or want to take part in. There was always the competition element in our lessons, doing the maths tests was just a test of who could finish first and get most right in the quickest time. As was spelling. I dont think that learning sign language would really appeal in the same manner.

I suppose i am different in the fact that i did several more languages than most, but logistically... the lesson would be entirely visual and practical, wouldnt it? There's no writing is there? Should we then, if teaching sign language, teach kids braille as well? I can see the benefits of teaching sign language but i just do not think it is curriculum material. As northern Whites said - an optional after school club or something yes, but this would quickly lose interest, and many would forget this after primary school. Maths, English, Science are tools for life, Sign language on the other hand is quickly forgotten and seldom comes into everyday life! Primary is an important stage in learning, and i dont think that this is a vital part of it.

As for parents comign into school - again, a logistical nightmare. How do you stop any old man off the street walking into a school? A definate possibility. I remember a drunken man coming into our playground, you can instantly recognise outsiders from height and age, but with parents coming in and out.. how do you know who's who? Not everyone can afford this time off, and companies definately cannot. As cuppy said, kids need time away - was the best bit of school, getting away from the parents. And how do you set discipline standards? Teachers are trained to work with children, parents arent. What is allowed at home, is not necessarily allowed in school.

And finally on the sex education front... I think its currently taught in Year 4, thats... 8 /9 ? (correct me if i'm wrong) I watched tacky 80's videos in which i took nothing in and everyone was too busy giggling and pretending they werent embarrassed. Parents should have an involvement in this. i think i'd have taken more in if I had been alone, rather than with a group of 50 - the entire year watched together. Its a difficult subject and i dont think there is a set age where this should be taught. I was continuously taught this throught secondary school too - PSHE (personal, social and health education) taught us all about sexually transmitted diseases, contraception highly in depth. I learnt more about this at secondary school than primary, but onbviously the basics are needed at an early age.

My daughter was quite unsettled by her recent sex education at school. She knew it all already, and has done for years, but the matter of fact attitude that they have about this in schools isn't appropriate. My kids have always been quite relaxed, if slightly disgusted, by the whole sex thing, but after the school talk little WW was really disturbed and frightened by it all. I'd much rather that parents did sex education at home but I also realise that many parents find it too embarrassing to talk to them about it. My own parents never bothered.

With sex education maybe it should be something the school nurse (if schools still have such a thing) dealt with in small groups of maybe 5 to 10 children and also be available for any one to one questions the children might be to embarrased to ask whilst in a group. I think someone like that would be better suited to discussing these than a teacher who probably finds it all a bit embarrassing.

I'd like more emphasis put on English. The standards today are shocking in some (not all) youngsters and some (not all) adults too.

I'm sorry if you live in a mostly Indian, or Pakistani, or Kosavan, or Scouse community, but you should still learn a good level of Engkish.


Should I also post this on the racism thread?

It’s the English children that are really bad. When I was spending time in school recently the amount of times I head 'and like' at the start of every sentence and 'innit' at the end was amazing. The teachers tried to correct the pupil every time, but if the parents aren't doing the same at home then it isn't going to help that much.

On the topic of parents, they really seem (in general) to not take that much interest in what goes on at school anymore. We had road safety lessons for years 3 & 4 and parental volunteers were asked to help for an hour in the morning. Out of about 90 pupils there were only two parents who helped out. I understand that a lot of people have to work, but that was ridiculous.

My wife is a Primary school Teacher and amount of time she comes home and tells me how Lazy the kids are and have no interest at all in Learning. On numorous occasions she had sent letters and tasks home for the Parents to do things at home and they just bring it back as given with no effort at all. She really gets frustrated as at the end of the term when the parents are given the Poor assesments then all of a sudden it is the Teacher and school's fault. When asked how much the parents spend with their child either reading or writting, they all of a sudden have very little to say.

I remember when our kids were in Primary school we used to sit them down and read with them and as they got older we always made sure we heard them read and get them to write one page of writing. They used to read out the News paper stories to keep it interesting. With this day of Computer the Writing skills have totally disappeared, when ever someone has to write something by hand it is aweful.

I can understand your wifes frustration at the attitude of the parents. Both of my parents were teachers and in the end both of them have retired early basically because of the frustration they had at childrens unwillingness to learn and the lack of any sanctions teachers can imopose when kids misbehave or don't do homework.

I'd have to agree with you on that Jonno. Basic English skills are going by the wayside as people use slang more and more in their everyday language. I'm often told how well my eldest speaks, but she just speaks normal english.

One of my kids also struggles with basic arithmetic and I think it's down to the confusing way that she was taught. She was given worksheets on alternative ways of doing things, and ways of discovering number patterns but all they did was confuse her at a time when she should have been learning straightforward addition, subtraction and tables. She has improved since being in different schools, but her lack of confidence in the basics makes things quite difficult for her.

The focus on the leagues tables are really hurting some schools. Teachers are not being allowed to teach, they have to force feeds children certain things just to get the SATs ready.

Agree on the league tables debate and most definately on the English front! Although I might be slightly biased of course! I'm quite shocked at the grammar, punctuation and even spelling in some of the people's essays I read at Uni. Basic things like commas to break up sentences, the difference between there, their and they're. I know the way you say a word can be misleading, for example many now pronounce "being" and "been" exactly the same, and therefore, the wrong one is used in written English. that to me is pretty disgraceful.

Is this a sly dig at me, or am i just the case example?

I'm so bad at been/being and there/their that i try to avoid them at all costs, and it wasn't till last year that i was taught the difference between them, it's a joke i have a gcse in english language.

Completely disagree with allowing the new languages in, mandarin? Isn't that an orange?

Is that serious that you weren't taught the difference till last year?

Thats absolutely disgraceful if it is.

Having read some of the comments on here maybe education should go back to the very basics that people will need in life before adding on other things. so before we start people off on history or geography or foreign languages make sure they have enough of a knowledge of English and Maths for them to get by in life.

Another thing that should possibly be taught and this is slightly biaseded based on my current job but the other week we had a woman in our office who didnt realise that paying 39.9% APR on her store card was a bad thing and compared to other forms of credit was pretty scandalous.. So maybe in the last few years of secondary school people should be taught about things like finances and budgeting.

Education is becoming a joke. Only 2 weeks ago WWjr! had homework, and the homework was to get as many song names to do with the weather......... this was for geography ffs.

thats awful. My homework was learn 20 spellings, mental maths and reading Biff Chip and kipper!

I was never taught it at school, despite clearly putting it in all my essays, exams etc, it was never pointed out to me that it should be different until i met Sav who taught me the ways in which the words are used and in what context.

I see what you're saying but I think MORE time needs to be spent on stuff like History & Geography. Having knowledge of more subjects makes people well rounded. Also, if less time is spent on it then we will get more people like Jade!

I do think that the way things are taught needs to be looked at. As I have said teachers have to spend the whole year (for year 6) getting them ready for SATs and they parameters for learning are greatly narrowed.

Firstly, my homework was also similar to this, but I think, around the time I was Year9 secondary school, I stopped being taught how to understand things, and started being taught how to pass exams.

The 'School Tables' things is probably to blame for this, with every headmaster/mistress wanting to improve the figures.

Secondly, how the heckers can you remember Biff Chip and Kipper?!! I have tried to remember them many a time!!!

I'm a bit younger than you :P

and they were classic books. The Magic Key, key stage 1 reading! i used to race through them and try and beat my friends and finish first... See - competition helps schooling!! Its why Sports Day should never ever be abolished.

I personally think that would be a solution to many of the problems:

More time to learn and at a lesser pace if needed.

Less homework to do, therefore freeing time up for children/parents to bond and socialise.

Less time in the holidays to learn bad habits from hanging around with mates.

Lower cost holidays rather then having to go high-season (ie what the travel company call school holidays).

Create new jobs for people (other then the teachers) for marking course work etc ioutside od holiday time (which is one of the arguements of why schools have lots of holidays).

Not a parent myself but I do find it appauling the amount of time a 12 to 16 year old is out of school during term-time, walking the streets with their mates whilst they are supposed to be 'studying' - I know we make jokes of it on here especially with a few of the young 'uns but it is true how few hours are actually spent each day learning.

I could see extending the school day until 4pm, but not much longer than that.

Less holiday time would make travel companies charge even more though! Its a rip off as it is.

I also see that a lot of WWjr1's homework is cutting and pasting things on the internet. When I questioned something the other day she said she hadn't read it, the teacher never said that, she had said find some articles and copy them. They could have said anything.

This is what really annoys me about modern schooling. When I was at school every mistake I made was marked in red. I had to correct these mistakes and have those marked for every piece of work I did, and this was at junior school.
When I was with my ex, his son had a terrible command of written English but used to get A's and B's all of the time as he was very imaginative, regardless of the fact that he couldn't spell or punctuate. When I questioned his teacher about it she said that modern policy was to praise the good work and ignore the bad as it lead to low confidence!!!

Thats the same kind of nonsense that they use in school sport. Its more about 'aw, good try' type attitude and not about kicking ass. Don't get me wrong, I think people should be encouraged to take part in sport even if they are not great at it, but taking away the competitive edge is not the right way to go.

Well said Millie, humiliation never did me any harm.

Does anyone else here still wet the bed?

That's due to humiliation? I thought it was too much porn

Sunshine On A Rainy Day - Berry

Should I also post this in the Music, Film and TV forum?

Great idea.. let's roll it out in Wales, hopefully by then you'll have your own Government and we'll countdown just how quickly your economy goes glug glug glug..

I'm very happy with the education that my children are receiving in Wales. They're achieving far more then they ever did in England. They don't have SATs and league tables here, so that's 2 fewer pressures on the schools.