With the furore that the Catholic adoption agencies have been causing recently has it sparked any thoughts on who should be allowed to adopt? Should same sex couple be allowed to adopt or should it be kept to heterosexuals? How about single parents or people adopting a child of a different race? Any thoughts?

An interesting debate from which i can see the pro's and con's of both arguments. I do believe that civil partnerships and minorities should have the same rights of adoption as heterosexual couples. However, i tend to draw the line on "rights" when they involve others, and in this case the most important person to consider is that of the child itself.

Personally, i don't think most adopted children would be best pleased if they were adopted by a gay couple, or a couple of a different ethnic background. I believe it'd be in the chidrens interests not to allow such, unless the children were old enough (12/13 at least) to say that they don't mind, and would like to live with them. When i was at school if you were adopted kids would bully you more than those who were brought up in a "normal enviroment", add i think the bullying would only be worse if you were brought up by, for example, muslim parents or gay parents. Therefore the interests of the kid prevail, and i think on both parts it is wrong, unless the children are at an age of consent, which is not the case in the vast majority of cases.

And just for a bit of controversy, god created Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve or Abdul and Mariha.

I think that placing children who are younger with different ethnicity parents would be better. Children don't have the prejudices in them when they are born, so they won't see it as being anything but normal.

apart from getting shit thrown at them at school for being white and having black parents?

"you're adopted"
"whos yer father"

etc etc.

Mentally they'd be fucked, would ruin their education and would probably leave them fucked up for life.

But keeping races seperated just reinforces that its not right to mix. You have to start somewhere so that in the future there are less people with those views.

you can't force people to get on, particularly mixed religions. Take Israel as an example. If people want to get along then they will do so, but racism won't be washed away by putting children with minorities. Try getting arranged marriages etc stopped, it won't happen. Just like stopping the mind set of suicide bombers, it'll never happen.

I am not saying that you have to force people, but in the long run it is better to have intergration rather than seperation.

Using the adoption system to ease integration is not the answer, it's not targetting racists but making an excuse to come across as politically correct. I think everyone in the world would agree it is better to integrate to some extent, in an ideal world we'd all get along. However in reality, it would not bring any integration, because you are forcing an adopted child to live with parents that are a minority. The childs life will be disturbed, the education of the child will be affected by bullying, and will probably affect the childs entire life.

It's like sending money to the third world, yes it may help, but a lot of the time the corrupt governments take the money and it doesn't filter through the system. It's a short term process that wouldn't work.

1- I'm not saying you pick out children specifically to place them with parents of a different race. I'm not talking about going out the way to use the adoption agency to help intergration, but if a loving family doesn't mind what race their child is then let it happen.

2 - "The childs life will be disturbed" - You think keeping them in a home is better?

1 - I'm not looking at it from the parents point of view, but the childs point of view - which in my opinion is the most important. If i was adopted when a baby and when i grew older i realised i was living with a gay couple, or a couple of a different race it'd be a nightmare personally. That on top of knowing you're adopted in the first place, can't be a great experience.

2 - I've not experienced living in a home and know nothing about it, so i wouldn't want to comment on if they were better. But ask the majority of secondary school kids whether they'd rather live in a home or be adopted by a couple of the same sex or of a completely different ethnic background and i think the majority would say they'd much rather live in a home.

I disagree that most kids would want to live in a home.

Also, on point 1. I agree that the child is the most important person to think about. You are talking like you automatically find it wierd to be brought up in a different race/sex home when you grow up. That wouldn't be the case. It is only prejudices that install these thoughts in your mind.

I think youre missing stubbsys point here. It's the reaction the child will have from others that could be the traumatic part. How long do you think it would be before kids are taunting a child about the fact they have 2 dads and no mum and what effect that might have on them. In an ideal world it wouldnt happen but unfortunately we don't live in a utopia yet

and will never get close to it if we keep everyone seperated.

maybe we should take "wife swap" further and enforce that a black person lives with a white person in order to allow for integration?

Read what I have said. I have never once said we should purposefully place different races together. If however a caring family wanted to adopt a different race then I see no problem with it. A child would have the chance to be brought up in a caring home, with people who love them. I understand that other children might be bigots and idiots, but I think you are overstating the bullying. It might happen in some circumstances, but certainly not all. Maybe we shouldn't allow fat children to go to school, as they will get picked on, or anyone not white as the same might happen to them.

Just because there would be problems doesn't mean people should shy away. We should try and tackle the prejudices that people have instead of shying away from them.

What are everyones opinions on the Catholic adoption agencies wanting out of the equalities act, with regards to gay adoption? Should they be forced to comply with it?

If that is the case then should other religons not be forced to comply with every aspect of the law, I don't personally agree with their opting out btw but I just think that their needs to be a uniformity in the application of the law.

I aren't stating we should shy away from them. You have made statements to such as "But keeping races seperated just reinforces that its not right to mix" which lead me to believe your argument was stating that adoption should not only be allowed but encouraged between minority groups in order as a way of integration. I personally disagree with that, i think bullying would occur in most circumstances, particularly when its comes to parents evening...

God is said to have created humankind, and is responsible for all life, so actually God did create both Adam and Eve, and Adam and Steve. Or, if you prefer to ditch the god theory, I believe that homosexuality is down to a faulty gene, like most defects. Personally the only disturbing or non normal thing about homosexuality, is the ignorance of the heterosexual.

I am not convinced that it is in the childs best interests to be brough up in an heterosexual environment that won't bring that child up to respect people of all sexualities.

Noy until they bring back the death penalty for suicide bombers..

Sorry off topic i know, i am watching this thread extremely closely for peoples responses, it is a matter that could take on a lot of importance to me.. Nough said.

Are you about to come out? :unsure:

Not in this weather..

I went to school with a black kid who was adopted by a white family. He was always a really happy kid and, to my knowledge was never bullied. I last saw him about 3 years ago and he was a happy well adjusted man.

One of my best friends when I was younger was adopted. She had always known and was happy within herself until she became curious abou her mother when she reached adulthood. She traced her mother, got on really well with her then dropped her like a lead balloon.

maybe he's thinking about becomming a gay suicide bomber?

Is that bomber?

My parents fostered kids when i was younger, and the overall feeling was that the kids just wanted to be loved and be happy, not one would have given a stuff who their "parents" were and wouldn't have cared if they were black, white orange, gay, straight, bit of both or liked neither.

As for the abuse/mickey-taking/comments behind their backs. I really doubt they would care either because for whatever reason they have no parents that they will be biologically linked to. Some kids parents will have died so will be more than happy to be in a family and will ignore these comments, some will have been verbally/mentally/sexually abused so anything a kid says in ignorance will be ignored or laughed off.

Not saying this will be the case for every child who is adopted. However, the over-riding feeling of being loved by their new parents will far outweigh any crap a fellow child will dish out.

And lets face it the, adopted child will hold a morale victory, as he will be going back to a loving home, the bullies in most cases will be straying back to their disfunctional existence.

I don't think it matters what team they support either if that helps?

Spot on.

Children who are adopted are often appreciated (i was going to say loved but that's not always true) more as the parents have gone down the adoption route for a very good reason.

Again not always true but i think i made my point.

I think that Stubbsy is right in that the child's feelings should be paramount,a tlhough I don't hold to some of his views. I think the important thing about adoption these days is that the parents should be keen, morally sound and in good enough health to be able to take the physical and mental demands of parent hood.
I have someone very close to me who is currently considering adoption after all other paths to parenthood have failed. They are both in their early 40's, well educated, fit and in good employment. They may be sidetracked simply because of their age, yet they have only recently been deemed young enough to have fertility treatment. Why should it be that someone can attempt to create a child at almost any age, but they are considered too old to take on a child who is already living and has no family? It doesn't make sense to me.

Nor me.

have held back from this debate for a bit but feel i have to stick in my tuppence worth now.......

Mrs M is indeed adopted!!!

she is now one of five kids all brought up by the same parents. the list of each of them is as follows.......

K.....the biological daughter of the parents.
m.....adopted son.......mixed race background.....bit of a twat when younger
C.....adopted son.......white but from ethnic eastern european stock
E.....white british girl....battered by biological parents from 6 months old
T.....totally asian background, abondoned at 1 year old.

This family i think you will agree is made up of quite a mix, but the one thing i know is that regardless of the back ground of each one of them (and they all know not only thier own but each others) all they see is brothers and sisters!!!!

none of them were bullied at school, none of them have suffered any side effects from being adopted.

an adopted child DOES feel more loved than a "normal" child, they were chosen well all is said rather than a "normal" child is an accident of birth.

Sorry Stubbsy but you are way off the mark in my opinion about the effects on adoptive children in mix race families.

Ive never known anyone who has been adopted be bullied for it, regardless of the parents race/religion, and I do know a fair few people who have been adopted. I dont think would be the same if the parents were same sex. I knew a lad at school, who's dad left his mother for another guy, and he was mercilessly taunted for this at times and he ended up being quite homophobic.

We are expecting our second child in April but me and Mrs Milgod always said we wanted 3/4 kids. Our third one will hopefully be adopted and we have started looking into this now. I wouldn't mind what race the child was as we would make sure they were just as much part of the family as our biological children.

Poofters are generally highly promiscuous and the percentage of those that abuse young children is higher than manistream levels.. by a long way, also they're likely to hang around with people of that genre! They have different values, a different outlook, culture and so forth and they should fuck off and stick to bumming one another..

Adoption for single Parents would be very difficult because it's unbelievably hard for couples to adopt and the reality is that it would prove to be strenuous for them, although then again many couples split up anyway..

Adopting a child from a different race is fine, but consideration needs to be given to the child from a bullying perspective when they grow up.. personally it's not fair/ideal on the kid but if the square peg fits into the round hole then fine!

I read this Forum with interest as I am Adopted and from the era of when it was a big secret but thanks to the Childrens Act wherby adoptees gan get access to thier original birth certificates and try and find out about thier blooline so to speak.

If I were to give an analagy (if thats how its spelt) Its a case of the Peble in the pond, the further the ripples go the more potential the impact has on others.

I am on the contact register and also know where my mother is but she does not want to know and I also know I have 2 Half Brothers and 2 Half Sisters one of each from both isdes of my bloodline.

I feel that my siblings should know but who's call is it to make that kind of statement...

That's actually very common in this country already. Black men and white women.

But not the other way round of course.

and the point you are making is?????

In the London area 20% of children born are of mixed race. That would largely be a mixture of black and white.

and you have figures on how many of each parent is of what race?