Tidied up Ralph and Bev's posting as had wandered off topic somewhat.....however, in the spirit of debate, have re-opened here.

The following took place after a comment made thus

"Especially as it’s surrounded by suicide bombers and the like now!!"
Loved most of your post, but am I the only one disappointed by this comment you have made? :huh:
jacqui

No you're not the only one Jackie - I'm surprised the comment has been left unedited to be honest.

Had to laugh at the bit about the bakers shop in Aldgate - you picked what is probably the worst and most expensive cake shop in the whole area - I would never buy cakes in there....

Louise

Thanks Lousie, I am shocked that the moderators not only did not remove it but also have commented about the post!!!!!! Overt racist on a general discussion forum should be moderated in my opinion.
Due to this I no longer want to assosiated with this forum and will no longer be posting on here.
jacqui :angry:

Will miss your contributions on here Jacqui but will see you elsewhere mate...

Louise

As a moderator i don't really see any racit comments in the original post. Maybe im wrong maybe all the other mods are wrong?????

But stating that there are suicide bombers in certain areas does not make it a racist comment

it's your choice at the end of the day whether you stay or go

Debs xxx

Yes, its a shame about the racism, and nice to know us over here are a "different sort of immigrant!" Quite an Adeladian attitude really!.........disapointing, offensive, unmoderated.... :(

Just google Beeston and suicide bombers -

"WITH row after row of red brick, terrace houses, abandoned gardens and graffitied walls Beeston is a curious crucible in which Britain's first suicide bombers were forged".

Facts, just plain FACTS.

What would we do without do-gooders? :sigh:

Fact is, suicide bombers are a very real threat in the UK wherever you live, and the world!

Why people want to latch on to one statement to make a whole post negative is beyond me.

Carla

QUOTE: s/nurse,Oct 6 2007, 04:41 PM
Loved most of your post, but am I the only one disappointed by this comment you have made? :huh:
jacqui

QUOTE: s/nurse, Oct 7 2007, 01:45 PM
I am shocked that the moderators not only did not remove it but also have commented about the post!!!!!! Overt racist on a general discussion forum should be moderated in my opinion.
Due to this I no longer want to assosiated with this forum and will no longer be posting on here.



I must confess, I am a little unclear about why such offence....

suicide bombing is an act, as is bicycle repair, or pole vaulting - it is surely down to an individual to attribute whatever significance there is regarding that act.
Suicide bombing appears to be similar to pole vaulting in that no one race appears to have a monopoly.....
Palestinian, Chechen, Indonesian, British, American, etc etc
If folk choose to apply their own stereotypes, I guess that is down to them.......
I have no knowledge about whether Beeston is full of suicide bombers, pole vaulters, or any other particular lifestyle choice.
To me, I do not see any overt racism......thus far.........However, I am not naive and I suspect, should this thread continue, a fine line might be danced upon, so further posters need to keep that in mind before posting

:)

Why is it whenever somebody makes an even remotely racist comment(and i dont believe that there was one) someone always has to overreact.
Jacqui, are you saying you will no longer be part of this forum because somebody wrote something you dont like? So do we all have to think like you then?
This is the whole problem with racism/ immigrant subject, it seems people are always shouted down for the smallest of comment! :angry:
The original post was very informative, thank you!

Well I want to move out of Manchester because it is full of guns and robbers!!! Does my comment count as racism? Am I somehow implying they are all black as if you watch the news most of the people shot seem to be black, even though that isn't what I have actually said??

I can't see how thats racist.

Care to enlighten me?

Hello everyone,
Just got back from the Weekend in York .
Unpacked and got down to reading the replies to the thread.

My remark was not meant to offend any one still living in Beeston , but lets face it thats where most of the Bombers came from , last year , failed attemps or not . Remember ?
Am i not wrong ?

I used to live there , 22 year ago , if I still did I WOULD have had them as neighbours , it was my old street !!
The one that was taped off on the news everyday for a week.
What more can i say ??

If thats the only thing thats upset someone about our reccie post then thats fine . There will always be someone .
Bev

EDITED BY ME

Seeing as though this was moved from my reccie post and put on here , the racism thread , by Andy , I feel I have to add to it.
I am not a racist , the above post was a reply to someone who was questioning my opinion about Beeston on my original reccie thread.
I also apologised to them for upsetting them with my views , about being glad I moved away from Beeston, and hoped that would be an end to the matter.
Obviously its not going to be.
But I shan't be called a racist , cos im not.
I was just stating facts.

My mother is a Pakistani and my fathers a Jew for kabbalahs sake !!

Or cant I say that incase I offend ?

Enough already everyone dont play the game !!
Bev

OK.. the comment was ok but at the end of the day you are putting people into groups.. my sister just married a muslim guy.. does that mean the married a suicide bomber????? i think not.. just because 5 or 6 people got caught trying to bomb or watever happend does not mean the place is full of them DOES IT?
would like to see what comments i get get back
Stairz

Good on you .

I think for me it was the 'and the like' bit that struck a sour chord. I wouldn't however have described it as overt racism, I just found it an unpleasant comment in an otherwise well reasoned post. Thanks for coming back to clarify and re comment though.

Louise

Once again I can only oppologise to anyone who found my comments about my old street in Beeston in Leeds .
The "and the like bit" was meant as the other undesirables that you get in some areas , like thiefs , muggers and thugs .

I was broken into through my coal hole (oh er missus ) while I was asleep . They took the usual stuff , everything id worked hard to buy . They even took my old trainers used for the gym . Then left my only door, being a back to back , wide open .
Id stupidly left the key in the back of the door. The milk man woke me up , early hours , standing at the bottom of the stairs shouting
"Hello Love are you alright up there?".
I still shudder at how worse it could have been .

I was also punched full on in the mouth , and knocked out, by a local man , resulting in 6 stiches .
This was in a well known local pub .
Just for not enjoying a snooker cue bieng stuffed up my bum , when bending over for my hand bag after ignoring his unwanted advances , and deciding to leave the pub.
Id told him to "grow up and stop bieng so pathetic"
it didnt go down well , unortunatley he was embarassed infront of his friends.

I was threatened not to press charges , I had my car vandalised and 2 house windows broken afterwards (i only had 4 to start with!!) which I also reported ,and not 1 member of the pub , including the landlord would witness for me . For fear or retribution . But I was successfull in getting him to court and he was charged , fined , and bound over.
Nasty Man.

Now there are some lovely people there , like there are everywhere .
BUT the above reasons are only a few of why I personally am glad I dont live there anymore .
As I said in my earlier post , if I did , I'd swim to Adelaide . Its nothing to do with race , at all .
Bev :D

The ending of the sentence would most certainly offend some members of the forum . And yes, it does construe racism.

"........Especially as it’s surrounded by suicide bombers and the like now!!"

If the sentence were more carefully constructed, then perhaps it wouldn't offend anyone. But then again, perhaps not.

How often have you heard racist comments begin with "I'm not racist but......." The current political climate is bound to breed unrest and suspicion, but for some, racist overtures are already engendered.

I have read many disparaging comments on this forum about a multitude of subjects - race, gender, weight, geographic regions........

Ultimately, we live in a society where free speech is encouraged. And just as the poster had the right to make the comment, others have the right, and have excercised that right to reply.

If everybody looked the same, we'd get tired of looking at each other.

hmmm, perhaps to you....based on your views about suicide bombers.

however, there may be different views

suicide bombers are..
murderers
martyrs
evil
criminals
misguided
fanatics
heroes
mad
etc etc

none of which construe racism, when applied to the phrase in question

Personally, I think in this instance, removing an, albeit ambiguous, phrase, based on what someone thinks somebody else means is probably not good policy

my 2c :)

You don't what my views on suicide bombers are.

And now, taking the original quote and yours, Beeston is full of the following:

suicide bombers are..
murderers
martyrs
evil
criminals
misguided
fanatics
heroes
mad
etc etc

I never said the post should be removed - this is a forum. And sometimes, what someone writes may not be exactly what they mean.

Indeed, and wasn't meaning "you" personally - meant people in general - could have worded it better :)

......or similar? ;)

please see above.... :D

I think you have taken a side-step. I point out that my reply is good-natured and I'm not offended in any way. But....

QUOTE (dougie @ Oct 8 2007, 10:31 PM)
The ending of the sentence would most certainly offend some members of the forum . And yes, it does construe racism.

hmmm, perhaps to you....based on your views about suicide bombers.

You reply can be be addressed to me.

The original post is racist, according to the law of the land and society in general.

You can replace the word racism with any of the following:

bigotry, prejudice, stereotyping or discrimination.

In the context of the "offending" sentence, I believe all of the above would apply.

I would concur that you could use a number of "ism's" relating to the sentence, which may be both positive and negative. I have no problems in recognising the phrase appears somewhat judgemental, generalistic, and stereotypical.

However, the accusation was one of racism.
As previously mentioned, suicide bombing is an act, not a racial group - it's only an individual's internalisation of what/who suicide bombers are that leads to application of any racial characteristics.

"murderers and the like"
"bank robbers and the like"
"crack dealers and the like"
"terrorists and the like"
"bicycle-repair men and the like"

Some/all of these phrases could potentially be viewed as racist - dependent on your own internal picture of a murderer/crack dealer/repair man, etc.
By accepting that people who choose to suicide bomb are all of a particular racial group by acknowledging it is a racist comment, are we not guilty of propogating and maintaining that simple stereotypical view?

I would disagree with this....if my wife is discriminated at work because she is a woman, it is not racism.

I would agree that racism may be a part of prejudice, bigotry, etc

:)

I agree that sexual discrimination is distinct from racial discrimination.

and what are Bicycle-repair type men like!!?? :P

(I live with one - he's OK :lol: )

suicide bombing is an act, as is bicycle repair, or pole vaulting - it is surely down to an individual to attribute whatever significance there is regarding that act.
Suicide bombing appears to be similar to pole vaulting in that no one race appears to have a monopoly.....
Palestinian, Chechen, Indonesian, British, American, etc etc
If folk choose to apply their own stereotypes, I guess that is down to them.......
I have no knowledge about whether Beeston is full of suicide bombers, pole vaulters, or any other particular lifestyle choice.
To me, I do not see any overt racism......thus far.........However, I am not naive and I suspect, should this thread continue, a fine line might be danced upon, so further posters need to keep that in mind before posting

Now I'm VERY ANNOYED... :angry:

My grandad was an Palestinian Pole Vaulting champion with an Indonesian wife (with american dad) who always played monopoly and had two stereotypes..an JVC and a Samsung

Why are you picking on all these people too Andy. what have they done to you..
Also why do you hate Pole Vaulters and stereo systems>????????????????


Steve

Hi Ralph & Bev,

I really enjoyed your post and found it refreshing to hear why Adelaide was not for you. I am sorry that you two have been singled out for making a comment within your post, and that the over reactors and do gooders who "circle this site" like the proverbial vultures, waiting to find anything to take offence at so they can air their over reactive sense of self right against anyone, regardless of the content or subject matter have struck again. Why bother with moderaters when it appears the site has its own police poised and ready to jump on you. Ralph & bev thanks for the original post and leave those that have taken offence to stew in it !!! after all some people can and do no wrong. :rolleyes:

Oh Steve, thank you SO much - you have just given me the biggest laugh of the morning, I have tears running down my face.

Excellent, excellent post!!

D

I laughed so much to that one as well! Where do you get whit like that?

That is a classic!!! Thank You! :lol:

I remember him!!

from the 1980 Moscow Olympics...........

I reckon he'd have got gold if it hadn't been for that ghetto-blaster slung over his shoulder on his last vault.

Great memory Andy ...............he was a legend :D

If you remember rightly it wasn't the ghetto blaster as such, it was mainly that the extension lead wasn't quite long enough on the Samsung and he had a nasty whip - lash injury on his final vault attempt that prematurely ended his carreer.

A very sad episode for the family :crying:

Steve

Well all I can say is KEEP all the not so nice people in the UK we don`t need em here in Australia,
WE are a multi cultural country and I would say the majority of people are tolerated

Sheila

LOL! :love29:

How many non muslim suicide bombers have there been then? i dont know but i think this is where that comment is racist. Bank robbers and the like, crack dealers and the like........ they are all colours, religions, shapes, sizes, sexes etc... not quite the same regarding the suicide bombers talked about i think?

The term dates back to the 1940s, when it was used in reference to certain German and Japanese battle tactics, but did not gain its present meaning until 1981 .


The first modern suicide bombing—involving explosives deliberately carried to the target either on the person or in a civilian vehicle and delivered by surprise—was in 1981; perfected by the factions of the Lebanese Civil War and especially by the Tamil Tigers of Sri Lanka, the tactic had spread to dozens of countries by 2005 . Those hardest-hit are Sri Lanka during its prolonged ethnic conflict, Lebanon during its civil war, Israel and the Palestinian Territories since 1994 , and Iraq since the US-led invasion in 2003.

yep, quite the same.....

all sides during ww2 saw examples of individual heroism in the form of suicide bombing, but as far as i know only the japanese made a tactic of it.

although not always an official tactic, all sides during ww2 used aircraft to ram their opponents aircraft, the intention being to destroy the opponents horizontal stabilizer, with a relatively stronger part of their own aircraft.
supprisingly large number of aircraft survived ramming another in flight, although obviously risky, suicide was not the intention, rather bailing out if the aircraft was too severly damaged.
but accidents happen.

soviet forces used captured deserters and other insubordinates to from an attacking front, although not bombers themselves, they were expendable.

soviets also used suicide bomber dogs, trained to run under a german tank and blow up.
but as they were trained using soviet tanks, typically they ran under those instead.
not good.

So by saying that there were now "suicide bombers and the like" , on my old street in Beeston Leeds
(which there were ,as i said earlier, they were actually arrested for it )
I was bieng a racist.
I was stating facts .

Even though I never mentioned the word muslim .

Is this cos people , like you , presume that all suicide bombers are anything other than white?
Who IS bieng racist exactly ?

Must remember to get my white pointy hat and cloak out of the dry cleaners,
NO ......
not for what your thinking,
for the haloween party , im going as a ghost!!
Bev :sign68:

(just from wiki...)

During the Battle for Berlin the Luftwaffe flew "Self-sacrifice missions" (Selbstopfereinsatz) against Soviet bridges over the River Oder. These 'total missions' were flown by pilots of the Leonidas Squadron under the command of Lieutenant Colonel Heiner Lange. From 17 April until 20 April 1945, using any aircraft that were available, the Luftwaffe claimed that the squadron destroyed 17 bridges

White suicide bombers in recent history (and they are very, very, very few) were either married to Islamic nationals and had converted to the faith. Ditto any conspirators.

The most infamous white bomber is a no-hoper (he couldn't even blow himself up),who was destined to rot in jail anyway, and had converted to Islam whilst serving sentences for petty crime.