I don't have a strong opinion either way on the introduction of TASER stun guns into Australia (and the UK), but I've found rather a lot of anti-TASER campaign propaganda, and some disturbing footage of TASER's being used by the police in real life situations, and I would be interested to know whether people think they are a good idea or not.

It seems that TASER's were initially introduced into the US as a safer last resort than shooting someone with a gun, but since then the police have begun to use the TASER rather as an everyday means of subduing someone, sometimes just for the sake of it, even in non-violent situations.

Taken from news.com.au (23 September 2006)

"Taser stun guns are now in use in most Australian state and territory police forces, but the debate about their safety continues to rage around the world. In the United States, where the American Civil Liberties Union has been fighting a running battle with the stun gun’s manufacturers, two deaths have been linked to Tasers in the past two months.

Tasers use jolts of 50,000 volts of electricity to paralyse people. The shocks are delivered by two barbs with wires attached that are fired at the target from a distance of up to six metres.

So far no deaths have been recorded from Tasers in Australia. The most serious recorded injury was in 2004 in South Australia, where a dart from a Taser fired by police became imbedded in a man’s eye. It had to surgically removed.

The latest deaths in the US in the states of Rhode Island and Wisconsin prompted the American Civil Liberties Union to call for a moratorium on their use. An ACLU study released late last year claimed that at least 148 people in the United States and Canada had died since 1999 after being stunned by police with Tasers."

and taken from here, February 15, 2006

"A 2005 report by Amnesty International states that there were 103 Taser-related deaths in the US and Canada between June 2001 and March 2005. Amnesty was also able to examine reports provided by Taser International Inc, which manufactures the weapon, showing that Tasers were used by police officers against children, people who were already restrained and physically disabled individuals."

and from here, 28 September 2006

"Taser stun guns look set to become standard police equipment in New South Wales despite being blamed for deaths overseas.

"The Taser advice has been proven time and time again to be the least injurious tool used by police forces around the world," he said.

Cameron Murphy from the Council for Civil Liberties disagreed.

"This is not an alternative to lethal force because evidence overseas suggests these guns lead to death," he said."

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There are a couple of video clips you can watch.

This one is half pro-TASER and half anti-TASER, and has quite a few examples of TASER's apparently being used by the police unnecessarily.

This one has footage of TASER's being tested on pigs by the manufacturer (This is not a very nice clip).


So what do you think?

tumkin

watched 2/3rds of the video clips. Some instances shown appeared to highlight unnecessary use of the taser gun, but they are a bit of propoganda are they not?

I can see that as a last resort, with the other option being to shoot someone in order to resolve the situation, it is a good weapon to have. Like anything, unfortunately it is sometimes going to be used inapporopriately, but if it can save lives in dangerous situations it is good.

If a criminal is commiting a crime, how should they be treated?

The only knowledge I have of the use of the taser gun is 2nd hand from an armed response police officer in the UK. He carries a taser gun and his opinion was that they are a very useful deterrent, he says the majority of the time, situations calm right down once someone has the laser sighted on them as they don't want to be shot with the Taser and they realise it has reached a very serious point, thereby diffusing dangerous situations a lot quicker with less violence.

I was not on any armed response group in the UK as a Police officer, but now I'm here and carry a loaded gun every day on the streets, I would rather use a Taser any day then actually shoot anyone.
I know that there may be the day when I will have to use it for self defence or to protect other people but if there's a less lethal option then I'm all for it.
I saw the clips and yes, there will be people who will use it in an inappropriate manner which I think the forces concerned should ask the officers involved to either do a job elsewhere within the force or to resign.
I know officers who have had to use their gun in their careers and I would not like to go through the emotional trauma that they and their familes experience after the event, which includes an investigation which hangs over your head for months and possibly years. :angry:
As for the testing of Taser, I felt sorry for the poor defencless pig, maybe they should have taken it to a sex crimes wing in the nearest prison!!!!!! :devil:

D.

That's right, you're a policeman aren't you. I can see how the taser is great for deterring people - I would certainly drop my knife if I had the laser spot trained on me, but I think that as time goes by it will become less of a last resort and more of a convenient way of forcing people to do what you want them to do. I know the video clips are partly propaganda but I still find it disturbing that a lady driving on her way to work in broad daylight, who disagrees with her arrest, is tasered in her driving seat and falls screaming onto the road just because she won't get out of her car. There is another clip of an irate woman voluntarily getting out of her car but objecting to the policeman pulling her, so she gets tasered twice. I'm sure there are hundreds more instances of unnecessary use that didn't get captured on film. Would a policeman draw a gun to force someone to get out of their car? The taser is fantastically painful, it's a severe punishment. How would the policeman have acted before the taser came along? I worry about it being used indiscriminately to electrocute people to make the policeman's job easier.

tumkin

Tumkin,

That's exactly how I see the Taser and my gun, as a deterrant, but if the circumstances were present, then yes I would use them.
It's down to each officers individual perception of the circumstances as which use of force, if any, they are going to use.
Personally, it has to be quite a violent situation before I will even consider the use of my baton or capsicum spray. It would be a life threatening situation before I (or hopefully any Police officer) considered the use of my gun, even drawing it out of the holster. I prefer to use the meduim of talking to people first and treating them the way that I would like to be treated, hence there have been few cases where I have had to use force other than the physical type, i.e restraint methods.
All police officers risk their lives every day when they say goodbye to their families when going to work, we risk it to protect the general public but above all I want to come home at the end of my shift, my wife and son prefer me to be around rather than have the financial security of having the mortgae paid from my life insurance.
Like every job, the Police force is no different, you get certain people who have unordodox methods of doing things. In my opinion, violence from Police officers is acceptable but ONLY in the right circumstances which the officer can justify without question.
I think that people asked the same questions about capsicum and CS sprays when they were introduced but they are now routinely carried by officers.

D. :)

Would you use capsicum or CS spray to make a woman get out of her car after she's been stopped for speeding?

tumkin

I think we could all find instances of the miss-use of tasers, guns, CS sprays, truncheons, fists, boots, handcuffs, aggressive restraint, etc if we tried.

Tasers are just another 'tool' in the box and should be used responsibly. But there will always be cases where some cowboy with no sense of proportion uses excessive force, regardless of the tool they're using.

Should the decision to issue such tools be based on the actions of the majority of police or a smaller minority.

In instances where they are used inappropriately, such as the example of making a woman get out of the car, the officer should be subject to disciplinary measures. It's the apparent lack of consequence for the actions of certain policemen/women that it more of an issue for me.

Not as a matter of course, if there was a threat of weapons being used or I had previous knowledge of the person and violence was being threatened, then yes I would.
If I had to use this course of action routinely, then I would be questioning my communication skills.
I think it's irrelevant as to weather it's a man or woman, in my experience, a female can offer just as much, if not more, voilence in the correct circumstances.

I couldn't agree more with this comment, it also infuriates me. :angry:

D.

The next time I get arrested I hope I get a policeman like you :)

tumkin

Tumkin,

What do you mean, next time?!!!!!!!!!!!!!

M. :)

A harmless figure of speech ;)

tumkin

I'm not sure the clips form the US are particularly relevant as the US is becoming more of a police state each day and those are the kind of things that police states do. We'd more likely associate these actions with the old Soviet Bloc countries or some tinpot African dictatorship if they were sophisticated enough but there you go.

The key here is to ensure these weapons, for that is what they are, are justifiably used in all cases and there are clear "rules of engagement" for their use in the same way that troops in Northern Ireland had the Yellow Card detailing when they were allowed to shoot back.

For the record, I am against them.

Well, its either a taser or a proper firearm.
The cops are in the front line, and they have to be given the upperhand and to be shown as having some power/deterrant over Joe Bloggs.

Or else we'll have the same problems over here as we had in the UK (a police force without any power)

All the better if its the non-lethal weapon and used properly.

Regards,
Paul

Interesting news from America this week. A UCLA student being TASERed repeatedly in the college library for failing to show his university id card.

Student being TASERed for failing to show his id card

tumkin

That certainly looks like unnecessary useage without question. I must of missed the very start of the clip, as I couldn't tell why they started to taser him. (only from the header, not the actual footage).
3 things that stood out for me with that clip.
1. It appeared totally unnesessary to continue to stun the student
2. Why didn't he just stand up as requested many times, that would end the situation
3. For a very long time only one person was questioning the officers actions and requesting their information. Trying to stop them.

Sure is an argument against the TASER. If the alternative weapon was a gun, they wouldn't have shot him in the same situation would they. Handcuffs would appear to have been a more appropriate tool for the situation.

s**t like that shouldn't be allowed to wear a uniform of any kind.

agree

I totally agree Fred its disgusting how they use them maybe the officer should have the same treatment

Debs xx

According to the news, he was already handcuffed and they continued to use the TASER on him.

tumkin

I'd point out they they weren't cops (well, not real ones) they were university 'rentacops' security guards with nothing like LAPD training or experience (LAPD cops have to be tazered themselves before they're allowed to carry one - it teaches respect for the kit.)

This was a bunch of frightened, untrained glorified bouncers who probably lacked the ability to get into the real job. Incompetents who lacked the skills to deal with an idiot (and it looks like he was being an idiot, not that that's a crime) in a mature way.

Not a comment on the right or wrong question (20 years a policeman in the UK before the last career change and I never even used a truncheon on anything other than an injured seagull) - there's just so much controversy about this clip going around that it needed a bit of context.

P

If they weren't "real" cops, why didn't one of the onlookers hose them with a fire extinguisher? It's the first thing that came to my mind when I first saw the clip.

Interview with the policeman who used the TASER

News with links

tumkin

Now there's a good question... And possibly one that says a lot about the modern US.

Can you imagine it happening in the sixties or seventies? Mind you, that would probably have ended with a riot, the National Guard arriving and a lot more injuries.

Duran, the 'cop' who lost it will probably get hung out to dry, but I'm interested to see what happens to the others present, particularly his supervisor who arrived someway through the incident.

P

The company that manufactures the TASER has released a new version for public use, ostensibly for self-defence. The models come in a variety of colours.

Taken from:

Taser rolls out new civilian stun gun

Taser International Inc. on Monday rolled out a new version of its stun gun intended for civilian use, calling the devices "the next generation in personal protection."

The new Taser C2, unveiled at the Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas, come in a variety of colors, including metallic pink. Scottsdale-based Taser's primary customers now are police departments and the military.

The new weapon's introduction comes after a weekend that saw two people die after police shocked them with Taser devices.

A 45-year-old man died in Fort Pierce, Fla., on Saturday after police used a Taser to try to subdue him while he struggled with officers in the back of a patrol car. Douglas John Ilten, of Nashville, Tenn., had been stopped after acting erratically and throwing musical instruments out of a truck at a gas station.

On Sunday, police in New York City used a Taser to subdue an emotionally disturbed man at his Queens home. Blondel Lasseque, 38, went into cardiac arrest after being shocked and died.

tumkin

Please be advised that in South Australia Police are armed with hand guns, you have a better chance of surviving a taser than a Browning pistol round at close range!

I could have done with a stun gun this morning to get Hubby out of his pit!
Lazy :sign53: :P

Rather have one of those pointed at me than a gun anyday but i am a good girly anyway :lol: