If some of you didn't know. Ever since some of the coolest animes were liscensed, ADV went out to popular anime subbers if not websites, asked them, "Do you give away liscensed anime?" before bonking them over the head with a 'stop or we'll sue' notice.

This, overall, screws alot of us over. Anbu went into hiding with subbing FMA. And Kaizoku Fansubs may have been hit (since their website is down and there have been no recently subbed OnePiece eps).

Now why is ADV doing this? Some may think they're bastards. I personally have my own theories about how they and partnering companies are forcing people to buy hugeassed series only 3 eps per 30 buck dvd. And since that's happening people are finding dling and buying bootlegs far easier.

Anyway. Another thing in this thread to talk about sides ADV attacking is this:

Do you think subbers should be forced to stop after someone in america buys the anime? I mean, it was on television in japan before it was in america. People have free rule over it there. ^^`

Discuss

Feel free to vent here as well.

They're a pain in the ass. Its horrible having to have to put up with all the crap of having to see shows get butchered on American television. The show gets turned to complete shit, and then the company makes an extra shot of money by making us pay 30 dollars a dvd for something that has 4 episodes on it at most. We end up having to pay 250 dollars a series just to see it in its origional content!

I really think people that sell fansubs should be arrested though. I also think that fansubbers should never stop. Of course, that'd be asking too much....but eh...I want my One Piece, I want my Full Metal Alchemist damnit! When I think about how they all get destroyed by the stupid American censorship laws....it just makes me depressed.

Whoa... this sounds not so good especially for those still waiting to finish watching the rest of a series. u_u;

Fansubs are a major way of getting fans interested/to generate buzz about a series before domestic release. People see the fansubs, tell their friends it's cool and there you go, that keeps going to many are all watching.
The problem though is, like it or not fansubs ARE illegal, it's at least in the past been a more or less "look the other way policy", at least till a series is licensed then if the subbers don't stop, that's when the problems start.
I think..maybe, maybe not, it might be worse now with those like ADV, what was once a niche market is growing considerably I'd imagine and well, to paraphrase some a Ferengi might say "think of the profits". So while there is more demand for anime this not only means the potential for more profits, this also means they see the bigger potential losses. What was once a slow process is much faster.
Think back, people had to once rely solely on VHS and the postal system to get and send fansubbed anime. This could take anywhere from days to weeks, even months at times to place an order at a fansubber distro site, have them process it and copy the tapes, then arrive from wherever to your home. With probably less oldschool fansubbers and now more "digisubbers" and the use of P2P, BitTorrent and other filesharing programs things are done much faster, the anime goes from subber to fan then to another fan and yet another ad nauseum till tons of people are seeing a fairly recent (usually) episode of brand new in Japan series.
Which means not only are anime fans happier (though maybe more impatient
than ever due to the standard set by these days' "on the ball" fansubbers) as well as faster to get their hands on new anime, it also takes less time to spread widely and potentially lose sales for the US companies who paid well for a series.
In the days when I was first into fansubs, some had what were considered fansubbers ethics that more or less people agreed were reasonable. As soon as a series was licensed they'd pull the series from their lists of available anime to get.
Pressure/demand from fans probably has helped such things seem more or less gone now, at least with some groups. Also fansubs have (at times) gone from free, to "at cost" sometimes to a bit pricier indeed.. Interesting it is to be sure.

The problem is though, some compaines also make it all the worse for themselves and fans. DVDs priced at around 30$ at times for only three episodes (and not usually for any less money) whereas fans could get the fansubbed or HK versions for much less/better deals. Companies like Viz seem especially bad about this, take Inuyasha for example, well over 200 eps but as far as I know, only three episodes per DVD at full price. Naruto is also quite long (I'm guessing Viz got the anime for it too? Not sure) so we may have to suffer a similar fate with it.
Then there's the awful things done to series, one of the recent things being the hopefully now done away with idea of turning Tokyo Mew Mew into Hollywood Mew Mew with no option to view the original version domestically (and One Piece I think also got by the same company (4Kids)). Fans, at least the ones who care about their anime remaining pretty much as intended and unchanged from the original Japanese release, don't generally care for such treatment of anime and would flock en masse to fansubbers and file sharing sites/proggies for the series unaltered (save for subs) or even buying the R2 releases (considerably more expensive for the fans and usually with less eps per DVD (one per DVD usually I think, last I knew of)). The problem though is sometimes bad treatment of a series, at least for a period of time (depending on how popular or not with the more hardcore), is allowed to continue because of not enough fans wanting the original as opposed to those that don't care one or when the dubbed/cut fans who (hopefully) don't know any better will buy and watch the series anyway and not complain. Just an example..
There are people who actually -liked- "Cardcaptors", some caring for it even over the -original- (non-butchered) series, which makes me about shudder.
And it's not always censorship (at all or alone) that gets series changed, sometimes they just choose to alter something till they think it might "sell" to a certain target demographic (like CcS changed from a more or less shoujo/maho-shoujo show to the butchered Cardcaptors, targeting a young male auidence as well as removing the hints at shoujo-ai/shonen-ai).

As for if the fansubbers should be forced to stop, I can't say.
I'd rather they not be I suppose. The thing to do is, as I see it, make the domestic offical releases so good (full of many good extras, reasonable price and episode count especially for -long- a series, etc) that fans will -gladly- fork over the money for the goods, make it -well- worth our money. Fansubs would then be more or less be a holdover (or backup) till all of a series came out officially and to generate interest. Though, most people will always choose something cheap or for free, regardless of how good (or bad) the quality, as opposed to paying more (and waiting longer, in this case) for things.

Fact is that FSing is NOT illegal until a title is licensed. There i no such thing as an international copyright. Just because it is copyrighted in in Japan does not mean it is protectedoiver here... but you all miss a very simple work around. Lean Japanese and watch the RAWs... there will always be RAWS.

On the contrary, I don't doubt people haven't already considered learning Japanese and watching raw. I watch raw (anime and otherwise) myself when I can (not saying I understand it all fully).
But it's not -nearly- as much a "simple work around" as you make out, Issue13.
Do you know Japanese inside out, does anyone here?
It requires much time, dedication, effort and money, many people even some of the hardcore may not be capable of doing it. It can take many many years to learn too. Plus learning something and actually putting it into action (with little-no brain lag) are different things.. Someone watching Excel Saga raw and still learning might blow a gasket trying to listen to Excel and understand when she really gets going at full speed. For some things it's not just enough learning the language from a book or teacher, but also immersing yourself in the culture (beyond just anime).

Just a quick/short example as to pronunciation alone, just listen to the same song by two different artists. "Doubt (Mixed LEMONed Jelly Mix)" by hide and "Doubt '99" performed by Buck Tick.

I gotta agree with Ragu on that one, Issue.. ^^` while I have a few raw anime eps (including Reideen, which I will BEG to even get raw or in german if I could *shakes fist*), learning hte language nad understanding it fluently is a completely different story. After trying for a year or two to learn the language on my own I only know a handful of words and phrazes. Nothing much beyond that. And Japanese, Chinese literacy is a whole nother thing.

And I don't completely do pirated subs for everything. I mean, for some series I find it so much better to get the dvds than dl it (like CardCaptorSakura on sub only dvd. It's for subs only, but they don't cut it apart madly and there are so many extras =D.... Same goes for Blueseed and Hellsing).

To me, pirated subs are only illegal if those people make the subs to sell them. People like Kaizoku Fansubs only sub OnePiece for the fun of it and for the enjoyment of people who wanna watch it and know what they're saying ^^` they don't sell their stuff.. And I think due to that - even with 4Kids liscensing it now - it isn't illegal. After all, just because some american company owns it doesn't mean the world does (though people in the US tend to want to believe that the US owns the world). Hense forth chinese bootlegs and ripped VCDs.

coincidentally.. people who pirate legally can be put into trouble if some asshole who Dls the anime puts them on tapes and tries to sell them. Fact, there's a story where my father thought he was getting a great deal by buying all the DB and DBZ series burnt on CD for 100 bucks. Funny enough, half the episodes were so crappy you couldn't see what was going on in them, and a few even said IN THE SUBTITLES, "these subs were made by anime lovers for anime lovers. If you were sold these subs, you were ripped off" XP

*waits to read more replies before I put in more*

I don't think ADV is that bad. Yes it sucks that you can't see the stuff you want to see now but you got to think of the people who don't have access to fast net and stuff. Even DSL takes awhile to DL stuff. Not many people want to spend 50 hours trying to DL one episode. This is especially the case when you can go to the store or shop online and buy it. As far as waiting to buy stuff at $30 if you are paying that much you are getting jipped. If you preorder from online places that cuts some price off. Heck if you get it online you cut prices right there. Then there are sailes. I just got a sale to get a legal dvd from a pretty darn good store for 9.99 or something along those lines. You go to Best Buy or Amazon and you could be paying the $30 (Best Buy usually has some stuff cheaper). Then there are always auctions at local anime clubs. I have got a lot of legal dvds for cheap that way. You just have to know where to look if prices are your concern. Butchering the anime has improved a lot. Even looking back at Sailor Moon days to now you cannot say they aren't trying. It also helps to listen to the people who are actually trying to bring the stuff over. Cons are a perfect place to do this. It gives some respect for what they are attempting to do. Would you rather go back to the old ways of getting anime? I'd rather not if it means that some subbers have to go underground. It's not like you will not be able to find the stuff ever again cause you know people are still going to do it. It's probably better that people are underground cause there will be less people paying attention to what's being done. I don't think paying for it is good cause then they are just as "bad" as ADV and the other distributors. I doubt if it will be as good as having a dvd in your hands looking at the art boxes and whatnot. In short- don't hate on ADV cause it's a necessary "evil."