My gecko is in a 10 gallon now and i could move my whites tree frog to a 20 long where my other gecko is and seperate the tank or do the same with my gecko. I was thinking of doing a fowlr for a year or 2 then working my way up with corals. I was told a skimmer/filter isnt necasery if i do water changes often and have a small bioload but i may get a small skimmer and use a aquaclear 20 as a small fuge. I would just need flourestent lights when there is no coral in right? I could also use some fish, invert suggestions. I am not setting this up by myself, my neighbor has 2 salt water tanks and he will help.

heres another topic i made in a different forum

http://www.fishinthe.net/html/forum/viewtopic.php?t=19810

Jhong is pretty good.

so im getting an aquaclear 30 now and using it as a fuge and it can also be used as a powerhead once i get into corals which wont be for a year or 2.

How do you plan on using an aquaclear 20 as a refugium? A refugium is a filter in which you keep saltwater mud in and grow plans such as claurpa in with a light on the refugium 24 hours a day so you have constant photosynthesis going on which prevents a lot of algae from going in the tank as the plants in the refugium eat up all the nutrients that algae needs. It basically creates a mini ecosystem in the refugium. As far as equipment goes, in a 10 gallon tank I would probably go with the berlin method, which is a method of keeping saltwater fish with your filtration being simply live rock and a protein skimmer (but if you have an extra aquaclear you could use it) I would use between 1.5 and 2lbs of rock per gallon so 15 to 20 pounds in a 10 gallon tank. You can use flourescent light for just fish. As far as stocking I would consider a pair of clowns perhaps a dwarf angel and maybe a few invert, stocked over a period of about 6 months. Let me know if you have any other questions.

im going to use an aquaclear 30 to grow macro algae which gets rid of nitrates or nitrites? it can also be used as my powerhead when i get corals. i was told a skimmer was unneciasary for a 10 gallon so i will use the live rock and the aquaclear to filter. im also getting live sand, does that help filter too? for stocking right now i was think 1 occelaris clown, 1 rainfords goby, and maybe a neon goby. i could use some help with invert stocking and what species to get.

the fish i have considered are neon goby, gold neon goby, occelaris clown, percula clown, firefish, purple fire fish, and rainfords goby. i dont really need herits cause the rainfords goby is a sand sifter but i guess i could use a few snails, maybe a pepermint shrimp or 2 :o .

thats good because i am not a big fan of hermits, to many of them are unpredictable, any of those fish should be fine. It is difficult to kepp more than one peppermint shrimp in a tank.

i was told that 3 fish arent that great for beginners in salt like me and even some experts. i think im getting 1 occelris, and a masked goby.


heres a link of the goby if you havent heard of it.
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_Di...cfm?pCatId=2261


i was also told that the 2 gobies would kill eachother in such a small tank.

its gynmonkey, those two fish would be fin but if you were to let those two fish be in the tank for several months by themselves and then added a third fish you would be fine, i believe it is key to let your filter develop and add fish over time.

thats good. but its not so much bioload, it more compatibility. i was told that a rainfords goby and a neon goby would have conspecifics. i thought they wouldnt becuase they arent the same type of goby but i dont want to risk anything. my new plan i s 2 occelris, and 2 hi fin banded goby and pistol shrimp or instead of the goby shrimp pair, the masked goby.

are perculas easier to keep for beginners then occelris? i would like to get a tank bred variety.

i think im just going to wait a year or 2 and buy the biggest tank i can afford. maybe from 10-75 gallons. theres a nice 30 gallon cube at petsmart im thinking about, but a 55 is nice!

i think a 55 would be great! its either a 55, a 40 gallon cube, a 30 gallon cube, a 29 gallon, or the 10. im probably going with the 55, just dont like the width much. for stocking a 55 i was think 2 percs, a coral beauty, a royal gramma, a mandarin, a firefish, a neon goby, and a algae blenny. i may not do some of those and get a school of chromis but i heard that they finish eachother off until 1 or a piar remains. hear are the fish i have considered other than what ive listed:
rainfords goby, some type of wrasse, another type of dwarf angel, a flame hawkfish, a masked goby, and i could use some suggestions. gynmonkey what do you have in your reef, 45 right?

well hears the new list :rolleyes: . 1 coral beauty, 2 percs, 1 mandarin, 1 neon goby, 1 firefish, 1 algae blenny, 1 clown or hi fin banded goby, a rainfords goby, a masked goby, and a royal gramma. im probably getting a skimmer rated for 75 gallon so my tank can handle these fish. what do you think?

that sounds good, in my reef (yes its a 45) i only have three fish, percula clown, dwarflion and a fire fish. its more reef than fish.

if i have enough money for the 55 im definately getting it. if i dont a 30 gallon cube will be next, then the 10 gallon. for the 30 i will get 2 percs, 1 dwarf cherub angel, 1 biocolor blenny, and a firefish. for the 10 gallon i will have 2 percs and a masked goby. so the 55 stocking is good? can you help me with inverts for the 55? i would like to have snails, 2 scarlet cleaner shrimp, and hermits. instead of the rainfords i may get hermits and instead of neon goby i will get shrimp. im constantly changing my mind about this! 10vs. 30 cube vs. 55.

heres a lay out of my tank/stocking ideas:

55 fowlr: 2 percs, 1 flame angel, 1 royal gramma, 1 algae blenny, 1 hi fin masked goby or clown goby, 1 firefish 1 masked goby, 1 mandarin, 1 rainfords goby, and 1 neon goby.

30 gallon cube reef: 1 dwarf cherub angel, 2 percs, 1 biocolor blenny, and 1 firefish.

10 gallon reef: 2 percs, and 1 masked goby or firefish

Gynmonkey can you give me a rough idea of how much each of these settups would cost? for the reefs dont include corals becuase i wont do that for a while. can you give me some invert suggestions(snails, hermits, cleaner shrimp)

i have been looking at the following wrasses for the 55 to maybe replace the royal gramma.

longfin fairy wrasse:
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_Di...CatId=1158&cc=1

fine spotted fariy wrasse:
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_Di...CatId=1967&cc=1

Carpenter flasher wrasse:
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_Di...pCatId=329&cc=1

the cost will vary depending on what type of filter you want to do. I would recomend a wet dry, for a 55 (all new) your prob looking $1,000.
55 tank and hood-179.99
Stand-199.00
Wet Dry-319.00
Skimmer-Between 100 and 200
Live Rock-200.00
The thirty would prob be like 650-700
The ten would be like 250ish
As far as inverts go turbo snails are good, fighting conchs, cleaner shrimps fire shrimps a banded coral shrimp, i have a very good invert book, when i find it ill post the name i would recommend getting it.

im getting alot of new books from my parents for christmas and some money so im on my way! im just goiung to get a freshwater kit. im going to use everything but the filter. do i need a filter? cant i just get a skimmer rated for like 75 gallons? what do you think of the fish? heres my new list:

1 carpenter flasher wrasse
2 percula clowns
1 royal gramma
3-5 green chromis
1 masked goby
1 red firefish
1 purple firefish
1 algae blenny
1 rainfords

for inverts i plan on getting 3-5 scarlet cleaner shrimp, any others besides scarlet that are really good and peaceful? can you give me the amounts of hermits and snails and the species? im doing a sand bottom. i do live the coral banded but they look kinda aggesive, can they kill fish?

i generally recommend a filter ebcause to not have one you need like 2lbs of live rock per gallon and that will end up costing you the same amount, and will not be as effective if you do not have a good source of live rock, i suggest agriculturlly grown rock from florida.

i havent seen many people do filters. i think im going to go with liverock over the filter becuse if im going to have all those gobies and blennies, they would need more places to hid and stuff.