I have this huge problem and it is making me lose sleep at night. Here it is: In our large natural clay pond my goldfish had babies. In order to get the big goldfish and koi out, to put them in my new pond, I had to pump the water down to 2 feet deep. I have caught them all except two 8" goldfish. My dilema is that there is like 3,000 babies in there that are not going to make the winter as the pond will freeze solid. I have put 20 babies in the new pond and 20 in the house in an aquarium. I can't keep anymore. No one else has a pond up here. I have two friends that want to feed them to their pirrahna's. I CAN NOT morally send my fish to be eaten. I spend about 2 hours everyday trying to get the big fish out with no luck, but during that time I am feeding the babies and feeling horrible about their impending death. We do not have a water supply where we live. All our water gets trucked in to a holding tank at $60 for 1,000 gallons. I guess I could truck some water and try and get the levels up so they could winter over but it is such a huge pond I don't know if I could afford to make much of a dint in the water depth. Now, everday I go down there I am bringing back one baby and putting it in the house. It is the most horrible thing. I don't mean to be so long winded but this is really upsetting me. Is this just part of pond life? I really have learned a terrible lesson and I am wondering if I am cut out for this pond stuff (ok I love it, but I am too soft hearted for this) Opinions PLEASE!!

I am sure there are things that can be done but some may not make it. Can you put a heater/deicer in there to make an attempt? 2 feet deep, people over winter that all the time. What is the width of the pond? Do you think it will rain again there befor a freeze?

They have a gazillion babies for a reason because not all survive. KK DOnt try to save the world just save what you are able to. Yes advice is easier said then done I guess. I feel for ya. Trust me you will have a gazzilion more too. Thinking of ya
Chris

I'm glad I'm not in your shoes. I don't know what I would do either :(

My neighbor had a sick fish that she froze in her freezer. When I quizzed her about it she said that it was much kinder than flushing. She said that they slow down and more or less go to sleep. She being a nurse, I didn't argue with her and after thinking it over it kinda made sense to me.

Now 3,000 fish would be a lot to freeze and am not sure how a person would do it if that was the option they took. It would be much nicer than feeding them to another fish like the ones your friends have.

Chris is right in that they all wouldn't make it anyway by natures design and if you could save them all over the winter then what would you do next spring??

Good luck and I hope you or someone on the board can come up with something that will make it easier for you and your fish.

tlc

Thanks you guys, talking about it helps a bit :-( Jeez Chris I don't want to hear about the bazzillion more babies I'll have next year, LOL Next topic I will start will be about fishy birth control. Well the new pond has nothing but a liner and I don't want to put too much in there for them to lay eggs on, UGH, I may as well be a rabbit farmer! I think I will crush up some of my daughters birth control pills and sprinkle some in the pond..........WAIT, being a grandma would be worse :blink:

Chris, how did you make out with your power outage dilema? Are the fishy's all fine?

Yeah I would take gold fish over grandbabies LOL. I hope you rest easy on this.

My ammonia is still reading no nitrite but alot of NitrAte. Keep doing water changes and everything is staying the same. The guys wouldnt eat today all at the bottom. I got a new larger pump and filter today very nice cleared the pond right up. I will retest in the morning to see if it helped at all with the levels, not sure what to do.

Sprinkle birth control. NOW THAT IS FUNNY.

Let us know what you decide to do.

Chris.

I did get pics now I have to find my cord to put them on the computer always something I swear.

Our pond is 2ft deep and it doesn't freeze solid, we overwinter the fish outside. Once it starts getting colder you may be able to catch at least the 2 bigger ones just because they'll be slower.

Gotta remember how far north KK is though. I am not certain, but I suspect in northern BC 2 feet would freeze pretty darn solid.

Leaving them in the pond will basically have the same result as putting them in the freezer I think.

When I lose a fish I think that they had a nice big pond to play in for a couple of months, and that has to be better than a life time spend cramped up in a Wal Mart glass box. Think on the quality of the life they have had, not the length of it.

Derrick

I think everyone you know should get a goldfish for Christmas, and Thanksgiving! Seriously, is there a pet shop that might take some? You've saved as many as possible and that's the best you can do, Elaine.........you might be surprised what you have come spring.

KK, is it a natural clay pond from MotherNature? How deep is it, or can it be? Assuming since you've pumped it down to 2', if the normal is 4-5' or so I'd think you're fine to leave the fishies there. I'd add a few floating pond heaters for gas exchange.

I'm only basing this on my experience on the border of zone 4/5 (-20's F). My pond is max 3' deep and doesn't come close to freezing solid. Solid surface yes, but not solid depth. I'm even successful keeping pumps running all winter.

John

Hi John, thanks for your post. The clay pond is not natural, it is man made. It is fed in and out by a creek in the Spring. The Spring depth is 14' and it usually gets down to about 4' in the middle. I just went out and measured and it is down to 18" max in the center. I can't plug in any heaters as it is too far away from any electricity. I guess to ease my conscience I will truck a couple loads of water in. Do you think it might upset the fish to add a new water this late in the season? I will have to de chlorinate it. Thanks again for your post, it has given me some hope :blink:

P.S. Yes, the fish store would take some, I checked, but you know where they would go then.....to be eaten by some pirrahna, and honestly that creeps me out bad. Sure I could give everyone a fish for Christmas, but guess who's pond they would end back at when they got too big.....MINE , LOL Well better go call the water truck!! Thanks again for all your great help........except for Derrick and his frozen solid theory......Jeez, why does there have to be one realist in every crowd :huh: (always have to keep the humour) Elaine

hahaha...oppps, sorry. What I meant to say was:

With global warming I am sure that you will barely get a thin film of ice on the pond, and there is no need to worry because when you go out in the earlt spring not only will all the bablies still be alive, but they will be sitting on little floating lawn chairs sipping little tiny umbrella drinks and singing beach boy songs! LOL

Yeah, that's it. Not sure how that first reply got there at all.... :D

R3D, you are a goof! But....you made me laugh, so I will forgive you for your first comment, LOL LOL.......bye for now, off to make mini wet suits ;)

well, One of my mom's freinds had a plastic pond in her basment if you have one it's not to hard but it's a pretty penny for building it and your amount of fish is huge so that probaly won't work :(.

KoiKrazy, If your pond is 18" deep now, and you fill to 36", thats twice the water, I'd say yes use declorinator. The fish will be happy you did.

Robyn will most likely have some more ideas. I'm not sure about overwintering without electricity. That means no bubblers, de-icers, or pumps; so no gas exchange, and no fresh oxygen. I guess you could periodically use an ice auger to make holes in the ice, like the fishermen do ice fishing.

Also, clean out as much debris before winter as you can; that will help with decaying gasses.

It would also help to know approximately how large your pond is, surface area. I believe the bigger the pond the less the problem, but I don't know at what point you quit needing holes or aerators.

We have public parks in the area that have large ponds with fish in them. I can't say I've ever seen a de-icer or bubbler in any of them during winter, nor do I think they remove the fish, or re-stock fish in spring because they've died off over winter.

Good luck.
John

Just my $0.02 cents.

Uuummm, the pond is about 20' wide x 40' long right now. I think that I couldn't afford to truck enough water in to raise the level enough, as the side are very sloped. At max capacity it is 65' wide x 130' long.

Elaine, you do have quite a dilemma. On the one hand, your pond is normally, at full capacity, nice and big. On the other hand, it's now only 18" deep, and you're in a super cold area where the water will probably freeze solid 2 feet down or more.

If you can afford to add more water, that may be enough to keep enough depth in the pond. I've had a few people claim their ponds froze solid and goldfish fry survived. I'm pretty sure that what happened was that there was at least an inch of liquid on the bottom. I've had goldfish freeze solid in the shallows ("dumb" fish swam up there when the temperature was dropping), and trust me, they were dead as doornails when they finally thawed.

Aside from adding more water depth, you are limited as to what you can due since you don't have electricity there. Once the pond freezes, you can cover it with a black tarp to absorb heat, keeping an air gap between the tarp and ice/snow somehow. Air exchange is very important. I wonder if installing PVC pipe supports in the pond before it freezes and later using them to suspend a tarp would work. The tarp would be like a blanket for the pond. Snow also insulates the pond and keeps it warmer. To some extent, the more snow you have the better. There are also various polystryene rings and stuff that are supposed to help keep a hole in the ice. They're basically plastic rings with a hole in the middle. The idea is that they absorb heat and melt the hole in the middle. I've heard that throwing floating items in the pond helps as they absorb heat and break up the ice more on warmer days. In other words, throw the goldfish some lifeguard rings!

I'm sure you guys were just joking about the birth control pills but, for others that might read this, birth control pills for humans will have no effect on the reproduction of goldfish. They might make the fish sick though. Goldfish are good at spawning. The only way to keep them without fry is to have them all of one sex. They can be sexed but only for sure when they're full size.

I don't know if there are any aquarium or pond clubs up where you live but you might try to contact them if there are. They may be able to help adopt some goldfish or have other ideas specific to your area.

Anyway, the drummer is correct. Wait a few years and your climate will be what mine is now. It'll be like Zone 9 here by then. It was over 90 degrees F twice this past week when it should be in the 60's by now. Today was below 80 though and nice. Unfortunately, the wind picked up and now leaves are all over before I had a chance to get the leaf nets on. I guess your trees have already dropped all their leaves?

If you add the dechlorinator to added city water to the pond, that should suffice. Put half the dose in before the water goes in and half after if you can't add it as the water goes in. The water truck should be able to tell you what the volume is but the truck (or rather truck guy) that filled my pond initially wouldn't tell me!

I hope you can add water but, even if you don't, don't be surprised if a few goldfish manage to survive. Goldfish are amazing.

OK, this may sound like a silly idea, but now that the "Quest To Save Ellen's Fry" has been taked up I'll toss this out there (even though I have no idea if it would work...but it might).

If you have an old metal drum/barrel (one of the big ones, 45 gallons) place it in the pond.Just a couple of feet out. Then when it gets cold and it starts to freeze, the barrel is something big and easy to push the top off back and forth, breaking up the ice around the bottom of the barrell. Then when it gets REALLY cold, simple toss some kindling and such into the barrel, stuff it nice and full, and burn it. This should melt a nice big patch around the barrel. Repeat as needed.

It's a long shot, but in theory it should work... :D

or that can be the freshest fish fry EVER LOL heck anything can work. I was also thinking that maybe try a solar floater heater amajig. Not sure how well they work but heck it is an option I see them all over ebay. Solar power not real familiar with it except for my landscape lights which come on every night. like clock work.

SAVE THE FRY ! SAVE THE FRY ! SAVE THE FRY!

POOR KK

Chris

Is there any way you can block the sides off and make the pond smaller so that the trucked water increases the depth more than the area? I noticed you have a dock set up in it, can you extend the dock to go all the way across and then, I don't know drop a chunk of liner, tarp? to the bottom. You might then pump the outlet side dry and put everybody in the inlet side?

The solar idea may work. Not sure though as I haven't used them personally either. The winter days are probably somewhat shorter that far north too, so may not be enough light to charge them?

Do you have a backhoe or a tractor with a bucket? Sharon's idea got me thinking, and maybe a twist on that is to dig a deeper hole in your pond, just 5 or 6 feet across and a few extra feet deep and let the pond water drain into it and fill it. I would think a hole that deep wouldn't freeze solid. A lot of work though! :blink:

Thanks Robyn and Everyone! You guys are so amazing! Robyn, I think your idea about the tarp and supports is PERFECT. Since we got snow today, I am going straight down there to get a move on this. I just happen to have a huge tarp on hand (ooops think it is for the camping trailer.....TOO BAD, Fish come first!) I think I even have some PVC piping on hand too. Better get my chest waiters on...and my long underwear...Brrrrrrr. K well I am feeling inspired gotta go!

P.S. I did have an excavator here the other day and thought of digging a deeper hole in the pond but was worried that the clay bottom would cause so much mud that the little guys would get their gills stuffed full and die????? Keep ya'll posted!

Let us know how it goes with the tarp, if it works. I hope it doesn't just sink into the pond.

Digging a trench is an interesting idea. You're right though, it would stir up a lot of dirt. So, it's a trade off. If the fish would survive extra dirt short term, the pit you dug might give them more hope of overwintering. Both depth and total volume have an impact on the freeze depth. While the more shallow ponds (with equal or more volume) freeze deeper and faster, they also warm up quicker on warm days.