While on a trip in western NY I found two goldfish alive in the tiny bit of water remaining near the recessed drainpipe of a small cement pond that had just been drained for the upcoming winter. So I fished them out (so to speak!) and am setting them up in a 10 gallon tank. The bigger of the two (about 2" long) has lost many scales, presumably from rubbing/flopping around as the water was drained; one side is worse than the other, and now (it's just been 2 days) seems to have a patch of white fuzzy stuff growing where it was scraped the worst.

I have used Melafix at the rate recommended for the worst cases (2 ml/gallon). I also put some copper sulfate in (probably too much as I thought it had a dropper top but it didn't -- if that is toxic then maybe I should do a water change soon).

These are the first time I've had goldfish, but so far they appear to be behaving normally, they're not acting noticeably sick as far as I can tell. Though they don't seem very interested in food so far.

How much of a chance is there that the injured fish will get better? I guess they're just common goldfish, but I hope it may survive. Can scales grow back, and if so, how long does it take?

So thanks in advance for any advice people may have about this matter. I guess I could use some fungicide or other antibiotics, but perhaps only one at a time? Or should I add something else right away? Would salt be helpful?

--Karen in balmy Ithaca, NY

I had a goldfish that got stuck in an ornamental rock that was in my aquarium. He was literally shoved into the top of the inside of the rock. My brother helped me pry him out!!

Once we got him out I realized that he had lost a lot of scales and his little fin in the front was torn off. His side was beat just the way that it sounds like your fish is. I seperated my fish from the other fish and gave him melafix and aquarium salt for about 2-3 weeks. His side eventually turned all fuzzy and white, but that peeled off in one big sheet (I know kind of disguisting- I had to get it out of the aquarium because it was floating around!!) a while later. His scales weren't there but he was healed quite a bit more. After awhile his side healed up (from using the meloafix I'm guessing). He still doesn't have all of his scales left on that side, or the liitle fin that got ripped off, but he did live for another 5 years after that and he is still alive today.

Well, I hope that your fish will be ok!!

The fish are lucky that you rescued them! Goldfish can survive some pretty nasty injuries. Here is a photo of a goldfish that I treated in my pond a few years ago. It lost a lot of scales and was torn up pretty bad. This is what the fish looks like when it's healing with no active infection.



There's kind of a white haze (not fuzzy) around the edge of the injured areas. It's red where the scales were lost.

White fuzz on the injury is fungus. I suggest using salt and a fungicide. Use a tablespoon of aquarium salt per 2 or 3 gallons of water. For healthy fish, I use a tablespoon per 5 gallons but torn up fish could use some more. Salt can kill fungus, bacteria, parasites, and more. The fungicide I've used before is MarOxy by Mardel. The fish might also need some antibiotics. MelaFix by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals is an all natural one. I've used Maracyn I and II (for gram negative and positive because you won't be able to know which kind you have) by Mardel for antibiotic treatments many times. They are erythromycin and minocycline respectively, and, unlike some antibiotics, they don't kill the good bacteria in the filter. You can use salt, MelaFix, MarOxy, Maracyn I, and Maracyn II all at the same time although that's a lot of stuff! I would limit it to maybe no more than three of those at a time although they're all compatible (not bad effects from mixing them). Be sure to aerate well during treatment as the medicines lower the oxygen level.

Copper sulfate is mostly used to kill parasites. It is toxic to fish at higher doses. If you put in more than the label said, do a water change. You can also add some fresh activated carbon to the filter for a day or so to remove the excess copper before starting other treatments.

It takes months for scales to grow back. The fish in the photo above didn't fully heal for a half year. The photo was taken a few weeks after the injury.

Thanks for the encouraging story Laura, and for all the advice Robyn. I wasn't really planning to get goldfish, but my husband and I couldn't just leave them there to die. It sounds like my injured fish will never be beautiful again, but may well survive. The good news is that since I began using the Melafix, the white fuzzy stuff is gone (I think it sluffed off like in Laura's case). I have also added salt, following the package directions of 1/2 teaspoon per gallon.

When I aerate this huge layer of foam forms on the surface, from the Melafix. It's like 3 inches or more above the air stone, so I was a bit afraid of what I'd find if I went away for hours with it running, but I guess I'll be brave and push it a bit more!

The fish are still showing no interest when I put a few flakes in, so I guess I should just let them settle in more, and not feed very much? They are pooping, long thin, virtually clear poops. I just have the standard TopFin goldfish flakes.

I'm disappointed because the water has turned cloudy. It was clear for only about 2 days. I'm guessing this is some kind of bacterial or biological growth (maybe?), because there wasn't enough time for the fish to produce much waste -- I've only had the tank going since Monday, and finished filling it Tuesday. Should I worry about that yet, or just give it a few weeks? (Doing water changes once a week, of course.) I just got the Whisper filter going today, though without the charcoal due to the medicines. The temperature is fairly cool, at about 70 degrees, since the heater is apparently broken (all the equipment was passed down to me by relatives).

Here's an update on my other tank: I'm still struggling to get my 20 gallon tank cleared up too, and finally have decided that I just need to try more frequent and bigger water changes (I've only been doing 5 gallons at a time). I tried my usual "Crystal Clear" which I believe removes particulate matter, and then "B-Clear Biological Water Clarifier" but neither did the job.

The rosy reds kept dying (the ones that were doing the "flicking" behavior) until I used Melafix, at which time there were only 2 left. But one that looked rather sick (kind of hunched over rather than having a straight body) got better and these 2 have been going strong ever since.

I also have two fathead minnows (just like rosy reds but brown colored, right?). I've observed interesting behavior with them, where the one that is the most aggressive develops vertical darker stripes (about 3 or 4 on each side) and was chasing everyone around all the time. That coloration has come and gone a few times -- has anyone else experienced this?

And then I have two black skirt tetras and two white skirt tetras -- 3 are about an 1" in size and one is sigificantly larger. Finally, the ~10" plecostomus. The 4 rosy reds & fatheads are about 2" long now, so that's probably enough fish for this setup. The tetras and minnows get along pretty well, though the minnows are definitely more dominant at feeding time.

Thanks again, for the support and encouragement. The picture is fun, maybe I can get it together to put one up soon!

MelaFix does cause foaming. I'm glad the sick goldfish seem better.

Stressed goldfish often have empty fecal trailings. Hopefully, once they eat, they will improve. Maybe they'd like something like live brine shrimp from your local aquarium store?

It's normal for new tanks to go cloudy. Bacteria of all sorts will grow in the water. Good bacteria sometimes grow in the water if there's a lot of fish waste and uneaten food and not enough places in the filter for the good bacteria to grow. Be sure to check your ammonia and nitrite levels. The ammonia may be going up. Water change will help. I try to explain the nitrogen cycle at http://www.fishpondinfo.com/chem.htm

The goldfish don't need to be warm so a temperature of 70 degrees is fine.

To quickly clear tanks that refuse to clear with water changes, I've used AccuClear. It's a temporary bandage though and doesn't prevent the problem from coming right back. It just causes suspended matter to clump and sink.

Rosy red minnows are the same species as fathead minnows. The rosy reds are just an orange mutation. The fathead minnow with the dark stripes was a male. When he "colors up," he's interested in spawning. He will chase other males or females who don't have eggs ready to lay. If you put in a clay pot on its side or a piece of PVC pipe, he will take it over as his nesting site. The dark stripe on a male fathead is normally one horizontal stripe. There can be vertical stripes but they're normally pretty faint. It's been a while since I've seen one in person.

This is an idea but may not br true. So here it is if a fish lived in the pound long anofe could it forget what flake food is AND only eat blood worms and other bugs?

Fish don't forget about commercial fish food if they've had it before. But, if they are getting enough natural food in the pond, they may not want the commercial food anymore. It is more likely that if fish aren't eating in the pond, then they are either scared or sick.

The goldfish are doing fine now, so I stopped the Melafix. They both eagerly eat the food now -- the big more injured one has only been eating with gusto the last couple of days. So that's great -- they seem like different fish almost! I kept adding a tiny bit of food and then watching and watching; they'd approach the surface and then act like they were scared, though the little white one was braver than the big injured one. Now they both just grab the food as soon as I put it in. I put a picture of the big fish on Flickr but can't seem to get that to display here; here's the link: http://www.flickr.com/photos/7262123@N06/1814889399/

My darling cat ate the whole container of Topfin goldfish flakes, so now I'm feeding TetraFin Goldfish Crisps. They these little uniformly-sized disks. They're kind of a pain, as I feel I must break them in half, or the fish can't seem to get them into their mouths easily (course I know they would eventually, but then the food floats around too long and more gets missed).

But I'm so penny-pinching that I'm sure I will use this container up before I buy more. If anyone has a recommendation for another food, just let me know. Anyway, they're eating great now, which is a big relief.

I'm wondering whether it would be too crazy to put the goldfish (one is 1", big is 2")into the 20 gallon tank with the 10" pleco, the four 1" rosy/fatheads and the four 1"+ tetras. Probably too much fish for the tank size? Also the original reason why someone gave me this pleco is that he was chewing on their 2 goldfish. But it would be lots less trouble to maintain one tank, and maybe the pleco would leave them alone now, especially if I distract him with cucumber? I also don't want to introduce disease from the recent pond-living goldfish into the big tank. Robyn, do you think it is worth a try, to see if they will co-exist? Have the goldfish been in isolation long enough (since Oct. 1)?

I will try the AccuClear in my big tank; that tank's been going for months so I should be able to get to the bottom of the problem. The PetSmart people tested the water and said the only problem I had was high nitrogen(nitrite?), or whatever results from feeding too much.

I'll try to get a picture sometime of the fathead when he is striped & wants to spawn -- he seems to chase all the other smaller fish at those times. I have a clay pot in there, but he's never really taken it over; maybe the other rosy/fatheads aren't females. I had another rosy red lay eggs and the male tried to protect them but the other fish were very persistent and ate them all; if I ever get eggs again I'll try a tank divider I guess. Cheers, Karen (in Ithaca, NY, where the Dalai Lama just visited)

My goldfish get Tetra goldfish flakes and the Tetra goldfish crisps (and some sinking ones and Hikari oranda gold). I alternate the four foods, feeding two kinds at a time. I used to have a cat who loved eating fish food.

I'm glad your little goldfish are eating.

The 20 gallon tank would be close to full if you put the fish in there. There is also the issue of compatibility. The goldfish are yet too small for the pleco to try to suck on them. When the goldfish grow up, they might bother the smaller minnow or tetras. Aside from compatibility, the goldfish tend to like things cooler (tetras need it at least 70 degrees F), more salt than the other fish, harder water, etc. Also, they would normally be fed slightly different foods. Plecos who are well fed may still suck on larger goldfish but your babies are too small for him/her to bother. Certainly feed some cucumber though which the other fish may nibble on as well.

A month long quarantine is normally fine. You can never really be sure that the pond fish are 100% parasite/bacteria/fungus/virus free. You only treated them with MelaFix and salt, right? You might want to run a course of anti-parasitic medication if they are up to it.

I would suggest keeping the goldfish in their own 20+ gallon tank or pond but, if you want to try them with the other fish in that 20 gallon, that's your choice. I don't think it would be a disaster/problem, at least not initially.

Your big tank with high nitrate (I presume) is not the same 20 gallon to which you are referring, is it? What's in there aside from the male fathead and female rosy reds? You certainly don't want to add more fish to a tank that's not under control as far as ammonia, nitrite, algae, etc.

Thanks Robyn; my husband says you're the "Fish Whisperer"!!

I only have the 2 tanks, the 10-gallon with 3" of goldfish, and the 20-gallon one, which has the 10" pleco as well as the 8 small fish. But I must admit I haven't been doing frequent-enough water changes; I swear to God I'll do one tonight (to both tanks)!

I guess I'd better keep the goldfish separate, and hope to eventually move to a place where they could go into a little pond outside. How will I know when it's time to get a bigger tank?

I was surprised to see that the little fish seemed to enjoy the cucumber as much as the pleco (who is crazy for it).

I tried some live plants (I've lost the name) but they completely disappeared within a couple of weeks -- there was a potted one that I thought I'd try, but something tells me it'll get eaten too...

So I put a photo on Flickr (and on my tiny blog site) and then tried to make it show up here, but this program didn't like the path name. Guess I'll try to search to see if you've explained how to do this already...

Thanks again, Karen

Whoa -- I think I figured out how to show you a picture of my goldfish who's on the mend now; here s/he is!



(Trick was to remove the "?v=0" at the end of the url.)
:-) Karen

P.S. Now my husband says, "Fish, the Final Frontier..."

How will you know when it's time to get a bigger tank?

There are two main things. First, the fish will seem big and not seem to have enough room to swim around, turn around etc. Two, the water will be harder and harder to keep clean. It will turn yellow or green from suspended algae feeding on the goldfish waste. It may stink. The ammonia and nitrite will probably go up. All those things are best to avoid so it's best to get a larger tank or pond for them before that point. Goldfish grow at various rates so I can't predict how many months or years it may take for them to reach the "too big for a 10 gallon" size. If they've healed from their problems and grow well (warm, good food), it could be a year. Anyway, you'll know.