I live in wisconsin. Freeze depth is typically 42 inches. My pond is 5 foot by 5 foot and 2 feet deep. Does this mean my pond will be a block of ice this winter and the fish will die? What can I do to make them survive the cold winter.....?Any ideas? My wife and I are pond novices and inherited the abandoned pond after we bought the house.

Your pond is about 300 gallons. If you add in a 1250 W de-icer like the one shown on my winterizing page at http://www.fishpondinfo.com/winter.htm it might be able to keep the pond from freezing solid. Is the 42 inch freeze depth for big ponds, small ponds, or land? They would all vary. Did the previous owners overwinter fish in the pond? Can you ask them? I suggest consulting your local Wisconsin ponders for information on how deep the pond must be there. Three feet deep might be enough which was why I was surprised at the 42 inches.

I found some WI pond groups but no working web pages. Here's a company in WI who might give you some advice but would probably charge you for it:
http://www.aquaticaponds.com/aboutus.php

Good luck!

The 42 inches for freeze is for land......does that make a difference?.....I was looking at the deicer you mentioned and saw some that were submersible.....which is best in your opinion?......I didn't know about the vent hole needed to let gases escape........is that why you said the floating deicer?

The 42 inches for freeze is for land......does that make a difference?.....I was looking at the deicer you mentioned and saw some that were submersible.....which is best in your opinion?......I didn't know about the vent hole needed to let gases escape........is that why you said the floating deicer?

I think the surface de-icer is stronger (more Watts). Plus, you want to keep a hole in the ice but you don't want to heat or warm the fish hibernating down below. They should be just above freezing on the coldest days. If the fish are too warm (perhaps in early winter when it's not too cold) from heat on the bottom, they may become active. That could cause problems because they won't find food or could even swim up into where the water is freezing. When I've added water to the pond during winter, and the new water went up above the ice, I've often worried about fishing swimming up there and then freezing. That hasn't happened but I had one fish freeze in the ice because he was hanging out in the shallows one night when the temperature plummetted and froze that area.

The water freeze depth is different than the ground freeze depth. The water freeze depth depends on the depth of water below ground as well as the total volume and volume to depth ratio. An above ground pond or pool will most likely freeze solid where you live but that same water body under ground won't freeze solid (if it's deep enough). A pond that is only a foot deep but 10000 gallons will freeze solid but a 10000 gallon pond that's 10 feet deep won't.

The de-icer will keep a hole in the ice better than most venting systems that rely on simple things like a straw. You can help the de-icer work by covering that area of the pond. Make a little house or tent over the de-icer. They tend to fail if cold winds blow, or it snows over them. Also, an air stone near the de-icer helps aerate and keep a hole open.

We have a 40" frost line where I'm at. Iowa, just below you. I've never had my pond freeze solid or even close. Maybe 6"-8" on the pond itself (exception of waterfall), but not more. Pond is 30"-36" depth in the deepest.

I keep my pumps running all winter (yup, I break stream ice, and haul 5 gallon buckets of water too) so that may help.

One of these days I'll write up my mad-man methodology for keeping my pumps running overwinter. There are things I've learned over the years; especially with 60' of shallow stream. Like where do you start breaking ice, and how much of it to remove. You never want to start breaking ice at the top of your stream! I mean never. Always start at the bottom. Starting at the top, the moving water will carry ice chips down stream, under the ice you haven't removed, and get stuck, causing a back-up. It's real ugly when all your water starts pouring over the sides, and it's -20F. Yup, been there done that.

I just found out the other day that our frost goes 12 feet into the ground! I yelled "WHAT" and scared the poor old farmer guy half to death!! I have no idea what I am in for this winter with the pond. I wish I could just winter them indoors again this year :( We had 60mile/hour winds the other day and my garage I built over the pond for the winter blew off!! Where was I you ask??? 14 hours away at my parents house helping them move! Thank goodness my pond hating hubby and his friend patched it back together until I got home. I just can't handle getting a pond update like that while away! Everything is fine now :D

I would be interested in reading your "madman" method as I am planning a larger pond in the near future. It won't be as elaborate as yours though with the stream (that would be my wish list) and all :)
Waiting, waiting, waiting....

KK, 12 feet :wacko: Holy cow! It must be colder than Christmas where you live. You better get to knitting some fish sweaters :)

Ya no kidding! I am VERY VERY nervous about this winter. I hope my shelter doesn't blow away anymore and I hope it doesn't colapse either! :rolleyes:

After awhile you know what your dealing with, figured it out, and learned how to approach it, so it becomes a pretty simple process, although a little laborious; the key is staying on top of it.

Key is to keep your pond full. Nope auto fill systems don't work in these conditions; so I shut mine off and blow it out for winter. Yep, you'll want those 5 gallon buckets for hauling water.

Temps at zero and below are about when I start paying attention, because I know a few days at -10 I'm working.

I've found the hardest freeze happens early morning, before sunrise. If I can keep things moving through that period, I'm typically good all day, but does sometimes require evening water hauls making sure we're full for morning.

Here's my theory. There's only so much water available. Part of which is either frozen or will be by morning, and part of which isn't. The challenge is maintaining the latter, especially with a skimmer system, because the opening to the skimmer is only so deep. As the available water freezes, the pond level lowers, less and less water becomes available for the pump, so the amount gph recycling also lessens. Which means (here's key) a frozen over stream, or even an open one with ice on the sides, by morning has less water going through, (the tunnel if it's froze over is SMALLER inside). So you don't want to immediately add water; like you might otherwise think seeing the lower level water and starving pump.

If it's real bad; -15 and below I may add a little first, but if I can get away with it I break the ice first. Because the smaller ice tunnel now won't take the additional water anyway, and what it won't take goes where you don't want it to.

To break the ice I use a tool, I don't know what it's called, I think tamper. It's a long steel rod, 6' or so, 1-1/2" diameter, with a 2" wide chisel on one end (I keep it dull), and a 3" flat flare on the other end, I've used for tamping in fence/mail box posts, etc.. I use it as a ram rod, chipping ice little at a time, to establish an open slot on top the ice tunnel a few inches wide; that'll gives room for expansion for adding the additional water). The slot follows the thinest ice, whatever the path in stream. Always start opening the slot (breaking ice) at the end of stream, where it enters the pond. Never at the top where it starts (I have a bottom fill biofall system that overfills to a stream). Starting at top, again, has grave consequences from ice dams. Start at the bottom and work your way to top, that way the small ice chips will enter the pond unobstructed along the way. The big ice, if I can grab it fast enough, I pull out.

Now that the stream is opened up I add water, 5 gallon buckets, warm water. I usually dump them directly into the skimmer, as close to pump intake as possible, that way by the time the water goes through the system it's not hot for the fishies. Keep adding buckets until pond is full again.

Hope this helps someone, and it's clear. Any questions please let me know.

A tamper here is an upright pole/handle with a square flat plate on the end. I have a close version to what you have, but no flat end. My 6ft. wood pole has a 4 inch chisel end...wicked heavy tho and has a good bounce when it hits the ice. It's nickname is a 'mutt'. It's a year round heavy duty version of an ice chopper. But I do have a waterfall now and with a short stream in the future. Thanks for the info, flash freezes have happened here in the past so I expect them in the future.

Sadiemay, I have that type tamper too; big square plate and wooden handle.

That's why I hesitate calling this solid steel rod thing a tamper, but I don't know what else it's used for. Not even sure where I got it. Works perfect for posts, where the bigger sq plate tamper is so large it doesn't tamp tight enough (IMHO)for a post. Both ends of this thing work great for setting posts. The chisel end works dirt deep into the hole, then the flat end, funnel shape but solid, and the weight of the bar, tamps better/tighter because of the smaller foot print.

I've found the weight and shape works well for chipping ice too. It's interesting watching the water freeze on which ever end is dipping into the water. Like a clear thick coating.

Is your metal tamper as heavy as our steel post driver? Is it the same thing? My father says the difference is on the end. I use a sledge hammer to break ice on my waterfall when the end of my poor aluminum pond net isn't strong enough. I've bent a few too many of those pond net poles! When I sledge or break pieces, I grab as many large chunks as I can. I discus toss them onto the top of the frozen pond so, eventually, when it melts, that water goes back into the pond. Sometimes they shatter when they land. I have to climb over my waterfall on unstable rocks to sledge the end of the falls on the coldest days. I also have to use my bare hands to manipulate the ice because I can't feel what I'm doing through my aqua gloves. It helps to have a bucket of warm water nearby. I also dump hot water down the waterfall from the top on really cold days. Compared to KK though, my coldest day (normally it doesn't go below 5 degrees F with -10 degrees F the coldest ever here) is probably a heat wave!

Robyn, the rod, being 1-1/2" solid steel 6 feet long, is pretty heavy. I'd guess 25-30lbs.

Your Dads post driver is more like a pipe isn't it, one end welded shut, with a couple handles, slides over the post, for raming them in the ground. This isn't like that at all. This thing I have is solid, long enough I don't have to bend over at all, and the weight of it helps break the ice.

Maybe I'll take a photo. It really works well.

My mutt is only less than 10 years old and a Home Depot version,but you still need 2 hands to control it. I sharpen the chisel blade for summer ( tree roots ) and by winter it's dull for ice ( as not to damage the cement ). It sounds like you have 'an original' version...I'd still call yours a mutt. :P

Oh, wait, I'm confusing the post driver (which is a metal tube which we also have but no handles) with the post hole thingy. My father doesn't know the offical name of it either. It's a very heavy (maybe 25 pounds) steel pole, solid metal. The top is rounded. The other end is pointed but not overly sharp. We use it by dropping it onto the ground to make a hole or bust something up. When my father needs to bury one of my animals, and the ground is too hard for a shovel to do anything, he uses it to bust up the dirt. It's like a heavy metal spear but I certainly couldn't throw it!

Yup Robyn and SadieMay, I think we have the same things. Mine works exactly like you described, Robyn.

SadieMay, I looked "Mutt" up on the internet hoping it would reveal a tool/tamper/chisel. No such luck.

Is this it?

http://peterson-outdoors.com/IceChisels.htm

ScampersSharon, close but not quite. I decided to take a photo. Here's a photo of mine, 6' long.

I think it's a San Angelo bar...about 72 inches long, 17lb.s. or so. Guess mutt is a nickname. lol If you went to Home Depot here and said 'Im looking for a mutt'..off to the garden tools. hehehe, found it. On Nextag.com, it's made by Olympia and it's under heavy duty ice chopper...it's called a Mutt, it's 64 inches long. but I use it year round, it's easier than a hand axe. :D

Sadiemay, Your mutt is like mine? Works great eehhh? 17 pounds, is that all it weighs? My gosh I'm getting weak in my old age. Feels heavier than that to me. Especially by the time I finish using it, it feels like 50 pounds. Ha-ha.