what do you think of those ponds with gravel and rocks at the bottom - an Aquascape designs guy told me those ponds are low maintainance - dont have to wory about sediment and anaerobic - its natural, etc/. what do you think - is it advisable. say that i can leave the soil in the plant pockets, too - indefinitely and put tablets.

what are your thoughts on these systems

This (aquascapedesigns.com) is pretty much identical to the pond system that I have. Ive had it for almost 3 months. It attracts all sorts of wildlife - rabbits - squirrels, birds, frogs, etc. Right now I have 9 large g/fish and a ton of babies in there, plus 2 plecos. I will probably be adding more fish soon. My pond system is happy and thriving.

There are only 2 "problems" with it that Ive discovered so far. The first is totally asthetic - the big, clunky, bio/waterfall box at the top of the pond is big and square and not natural looking at all. I made a cover for it out of redwood trellis and have planted some vines with flowers that will grow to cover the box in time.

The second is also an athestic problem but with the liner - both at the bottom of the pond and along the edges. The fish move the rocks/gravel around and sometimes I can see small parts of the liner. This is easily fixed by me swooshing a stick around on the bottom and moving the gravel back into place. Along the edge of the pond, in places, the builders intentionally made 'bogs' with bog plants, for a natural effect. Well, the birds and wildlife come in and trample the mud in the bogs and sometimes uncover the edge of the liner a little. This is easily fixed by putting rocks or more plants in that spot.

Ive had a great experience with my pond so far!

There are pros and cons to having rocks in the bottom of the pond. I have a list of them at http://www.fishpondinfo.com/setup.htm#rock

I think that "Aquascapes" ponds look really natural and good at first and can do fine if the ponder knows how to care for them. But, as with any system, there are some problems that often occur. These would include difficulties cleaning the pond and maintaining it due to all the rocks and other things. For example, many of these ponds I've seen are too shallow, too hard for a person to walk around in, and the skimmers and "biofalls" don't look all that natural (I'm not saying that others do because mine certainly doesn't!). The main thing I have against Aquascapes is that they are now a kingpin of ponds if you will who dominate the market and think that their ideas are 100% correct and the only way to do things. They pick one side or choice and say the other is no good but that's just not the way things are. On the opposite end, true koi aficionados would never put rocks in their pond and say Aquascapes is 100% wrong. I'm much more eclectic in my ponding methods and think it's up to the particular ponder and what they want and how their pond is meant to be. It's the absolutes that various pond "experts" claim that bother me most about pond keeping. They say you "can't" do this or "must" do that but it's usually not true. Sorry for the speech!

How, then, do they say that there is no problem with anaerobic/toxic build up - no need to clean the dirt out? any ideas

Ponds are not simple! There are many factors involved. I have a discussion at http://www.fishpondinfo.com/talk.htm about anaerobic bacteria, decomposition, etc. that was really confusing, even for me! I tried to explain what I thought to another lady. Anaerobic bacteria will grow in any oxygen-low portion of the pond if they have food (that's rotting vegetation, fish food, fish waste, etc.). If the pond is kept clean, lightly stocked, etc., then only a few anaerobic bacteria grow. Their by-products, hydrogen sulfide and methane, are toxic at high enough levels. In a well-aerated pond (in winter too), those will be driven off pretty quickly at low levels. If the ponder or skimmer collects most of the leaves, rotting vegetation, etc., there's less to spawn an overgrown of the "bad" bacteria. I think AquaScapes suggests a yearly squirt down with a high pressure hose. That doesn't appeal to me (my opinion only). It's a lot of work and stressful for all the animals that would require removing. Plus, I'd worry about killing the aquatic micro-life, tadpoles, etc. Also, the addition of good bacteria and enzymes (like Microbe-Lift or BZT; I use both at various times) promotes the growth or the beneficial microbes over the "bad" ones. They compete and "eat" the food sources first.

Basically, if you tend to the pond as it needs to be tended to with the extra work involved, a pond with rocks on the bottom can be okay. I don't have a true AquaScapes pond but the contractors did put a shallow layer of pea gravel over half the bottom of my pond (of course, Maggie and Colin, my koi moved it all over the pond). I've never done a full pond cleaning since 1997, and my pond is very healthy. I do add good bacteria and remove tons of plant debris as needed. I use a net for most cleaning. I bought a Pondovac but it sucks everything, including the poor small animals. When I stir up some of the gravel, it does release pond "black gold" and some bad gases but that's temporary. Never disturb more than a small area at once, or it can be toxic. Anyway, I'm tired and am losing my train of thought.

I have a Aquascape pond with all the rocks and love it! No matter what kind of pond you have theres work to do on it. I like to putz around with mine and my fish follow me around :D AS ponds aren't meant to be koi ponds for the koi addicts but water gardens. As far as cleaning, I use a muc vac to clean the bottom plus it does a water change as well. As long as the plants are non-invasive they can be planted right in the rocks. No need for dirt. Rocks or no rocks has been a battle for along time. Guess it's up to what a person wants. A pond should be fun and not a pain. I enjoy mine! :D Happy Ponding!

if you step on the pea gravel bottom, will it ruin the liner in the cleaning effort.?

I've been tripping over and moving around in the pea gravel in my 1800 gallon pond since 1997 basically every week. So far, the liner has no leaks. I do worry about it though, moreso in the areas where there's just a few rocks as opposed to the deeper areas.

two questions:

1. do you have a layer of pea gravel all over the pond or in vast, vast areas of margins - if you do, do you leave it in their or remove it anually?


2. this is my point with the gravel against those who worry about anaerobic conditions in shallow gravel:


in nature, in the winter months, there are many bog ponds that:

1. receive very, very little circulation or new water comming in and exiting via entrance and exiting streams/springs. because of the ice, those shallow streams tend to freeze over, in that case of those types of ponds that you might find in the woods that are typically a little stagnant and contain a large host of animal life (tadpoles, frogs, minnows, waterbugs, AND TONS OF ROTTING VEGITATION).

im thinking of a bog near me, in particular, say: 6000 gallons. not much water is getting in their when it freezes and it freezes over.

then, why can't i just have 1" of mulm on my bottom mixed in with my 1.5-2.0" of mixed gravel. unlike in nature with that bog pond, i will have less nutrients in the water and ill be having an airstone and a 3000 gph pump in a stand up pipe to keep a hole in the ice. i ask this because i hope to never have to do a clean out of the gravel and just leave it to the oxygen fed good hetertrophic bacteria that is colonizing on the vast amount of surface area offered by the gravel and rocks - and in the skimmer and waterfall. what is your possition on these points?

"1. do you have a layer of pea gravel all over the pond or in vast, vast areas of margins - if you do, do you leave it in their or remove it anually?"

The pond is about half marginal area and half deep area with sort of a middle deep area in the center. I would have prefered steps between the depths but the idiots who put in my pond years ago make it all with slopes. Not only do all slip and slide, but the pots do and of course, the pea gravel. Initially, they set it up with moderate-sized rocks where the drop off occurs. Those rocks held in about 3" of pea gravel which is about what I started with in 1997. Once life went into the pond, the holding rocks would fall, pea gravel would move, and the koi as they got bigger would root rocks all over the place. So, a few times a year, I net out most of the gravel in the deep end and toss it back up to the shallows. I want to keep it out of the deep end but it's a losing battle. Over the years, I've remove the gravel and used it in the tops of plants that I'm potting. When re-potting, a lot would get lost so that the depth of pea gravel in my marginal area now ranges from nothing in one spot to about 2 inches in some areas with most areas now only having about 1 to 1.5 inches left. So, it's not that deep anymore. I wouldn't mind it all being out except it does cover the liner, giving it character and protecting it, and provides a home for the tiny animals, etc. in the pond. It just makes it seem more natural.


"1. receive very, very little circulation or new water comming in and exiting via entrance and exiting streams/springs. because of the ice, those shallow streams tend to freeze over, in that case of those types of ponds that you might find in the woods that are typically a little stagnant and contain a large host of animal life (tadpoles, frogs, minnows, waterbugs, AND TONS OF ROTTING VEGITATION)."

Yes, and in those ponds if you looked in late winter and early spring, there would also be a lot of dead animals. The survivors are hardy indeed.

"then, why can't i just have 1" of mulm on my bottom mixed in with my 1.5-2.0" of mixed gravel. unlike in nature with that bog pond, i will have less nutrients in the water and ill be having an airstone and a 3000 gph pump in a stand up pipe to keep a hole in the ice. i ask this because i hope to never have to do a clean out of the gravel and just leave it to the oxygen fed good hetertrophic bacteria that is colonizing on the vast amount of surface area offered by the gravel and rocks - and in the skimmer and waterfall. what is your possition on these points?"

Unlike nature, you will probably have many more animals in there for the same volume. Unlike nature, you'll probably be upset if more than a few die. That's why. An inch of debris sounds like a lot to me but less than half an inch shouldn't be much of a problem with good aeration and the addition of good bacteria as needed. Lazy me, since 1997, I've never removed gravel for cleaning or emptied the pond for cleaning. And it's "clean" enough that I don't have to do that.

Robyn,

very interesting insight - so, a lot of animals die over winter :( well, ill try to avoid that, as best as possible.

also, im not gonna add bacteria or "zymes". i better figure out this issue lol.

but, you dont need to empty out and clean out gravel, cause you have only a little gravel - right?

Adding good bacteria is a very good idea.

I said how much gravel I have. It's not a little but it's not a ton either, probably in between.