"Jaws" is the biggest goldfish in our pond. She's a little over a foot long and is white, her normal color.

Currently she has two black spots about the size of a dime, one on each side of the lower jaw. She has small white bumps across her lower lip.

Two months ago she had very abnormal behavior when I approached the pond one day. The water temp that day was 42 deg F, and all the fish were near the bottom and not moving much. When she saw me she freaked out. She swam the length of the pond back and forth several times, thrashing her head left and right. The motion was very unnatural for any fish any time of the year. The other fish stayed where they were, only moving to get out of her way. She only did that on that one day. I tested the water that day ... everything good and normal.
For five weeks after she stayed at the very bottom of the pond, near motionless in one spot. I left her alone. I haven't fed the fish for at least 2 1/2 months.

This last week the weather has warmed up a lot. The pond temp is just over 50 deg F. She has been swimming around very slow and has approached within a foot of the surface. The other fish are swimming around at normal speed, are at the surface, and begging for food.

Today I put a little food in the pond to get a look at her. She came to the surface but looked as though she couldn't eat. That's when I got a look at the spot on either side of her jaw. It seemed her jaw did not function properly.

She is about 9 or 10 years old now. I'm not sure if I should just leave her alone or catch her and find out more. I'm worried that catching her might stress her out and do her in. :(

Any ideas on what to do here, or what she may have?

PG

The black spots are pretty large then. Can you tell if it's just a color change there, an injury, or even something like a fish louse? It would be strange for a mature goldfish to have trouble with its jaw unless it was injured from an accident or predator. It sounds like you won't know more without taking the fish out of the water for examination. I have so many fish and get sick ones (usually dropsy, bent spines, etc.) here and there. I usually just leave them be. Removing them is stressful but sometimes fish can improve in health if treated outside the pond. It really depends on what is wrong which we don't know. Sorry that I'm not of much help!

PG, what did you decide to do about Jaws' spots?

tia

So far I've let her be...

I looked at her today and one of the dark spots is gone. Instead of the spot it looks as though that part of her face and jaw has been eaten away. It looks like cotton pieces hanging from her mouth, and now near her eye.
I've been looking online ... it might be mouth rot.
I hope it's not contagious. If it is I might have to euthanize. She a bit more active, and she appears to want to eat. The rest of her body looks normal.

I'm just not sure what to do ... very upsetting ... :(

Too bad you couldn't get a pic to post. I bet Robyn would know what it is but I understand that you don't want to disturb her. I would be scared and worried sick too.
That is so cool that you have had her that long!
I will keep my fingers crossed that she gets better :)

Thank you ... I'm keeping my fingers crossed too.

Santa didn't bring a digital camera this year (must have seen more naught than nice), so I'll just have to take the initiative and get one for myself.
I know it would be a huge help to Robyn and others to help diagnose.

Plus, I would really like to post new pics of my aquarium setup. My DW really likes the new rock & driftwood I put in there today.
The rock is red lava, and the center hole in it is shaped like a big heart!
Judging by your current avatar you'd like it too.

PG

Awww that is so romantic PG :wub: You must have got a big box of candy for that one...

Two, actually!!

If it's mostly decomposition around the jaw, that could be mouth rot. Fuzzy white stuff is normally fungus. Mouth rot is bacterial but fungus can also be involved. Treatment is normally antibiotics. Things like pond salt, MelaFix, and anti-fungals may help as well.

Might be time to catch her and treat the problem.
Especially since she's a bit more active than she was last week.

I don't have Melafix or an anti-fungal, but I do have aquarium salt.
I'm going to guess that pond salt & aquarium salt aren't much different.
I have a salt test kit ... I'll test the pond water for salt content first. Then, catch her and treat her in a separate 20 gallon tub.
I'll have to look at some of Robyn's pages to see if I can find treatment percentage for salt ... as well as for how long to soak her in the saline solution.

If that doesn't do the trick, then I should go to my local pond & watergarden store (we're lucky to have one a mile down the road) and see if they have an anti-fungal or anti-bacterial in stock. :mellow: :mellow:

Thank you Robyn.

PG

You can use aquarium and pond salt interchangeably.

My salt page is at http://www.fishpondinfo.com/fishcare/salt.htm

There is a different between keeping salt in the water all the time which helps with healing and problems and an actual salt dip. Salt dips are short term and risky. They are normally used to get parasites to drop off the fish. What you want is an all the time safe solution. For a 20 gallon aquarium, I suggest adding a tablespoon per 3 gallons or so or about 7 tablespoons for a 20 gallon. For almost any fish, a tablespoon per 5 gallons is fine (I put that in all my tanks but only measure visually and not analytically). Goldfish can easily tolerate twice that so that can help with treatment.

Thanks for the link Robyn.

When I tested the pond salt level the other day, it read between 0.00% - 0.02%. So I decided to treat the pond with salt, instead of netting Jaws (the big goldfish) out for separate treatment. Didn't want to risk the stress to her.
I raised the pond salt level to 0.04%. In just two days Jaws has shown great improvement. She no longer isolates herself, she's swimming with the shoal, and begs for food.
Her mouth, jaw, and eye area are improving remarkably. Those parts still look sore, but the black colored spots are almost completely gone. The white cotton stuff hanging from her snout has reduced quite a bit.

It hasn't been very cold lately, and the pond water temp is hovering just above 50 degrees F. The the increased temperature and salt level seem to be helping a lot.

She might not be out of the woods yet ... it's nice to see her behaving her normal self again. Still keeping my fingers crossed.

PG

Oh that is great news PG. I hope the old gal continues to improve! :D

Sometimes we girls need just a little extra care. ;)

tia

Thanks tia.

My wife was glad to hear the news as well. She couldn't bear to see her in the state she was in.

And I wasn't looking forward to euthanizing ... something I haven't ever had to do ...

We've only had her for a few years. The lady we got her from told us she was around 7 years old at the time. So she's getting up there in goldfish time, but I hear some goldies live up to 20 years old!

With her size and great personality she's a big member of the family.

PG

I'm glad she's better! I hope she makes a full recovery.

that is awsome!!! s glad to hear the goodnews

:( I wish my pond was big enough to have a shoal

c2

C2 my pond isn't big at all .... just overstocked!! :)

It's amazing ... another two days have passed and Jaws is looking darn near normal now!!
I really thought that it would take weeks for the improvement I saw on Monday & today. I can hardly see where her sickness or injury was.

When I walked up to the pond edge, she was first to the top, and begging.
It was tough, but I did resist the urge to feed them. -_-

PG

PG, how warm has it been down there? It's been fairly warm here the last few days. The fish were all at the top of the pond today. I checked the temp and it was about 46 degrees F.

tia

It's been in the low 60's during the day ... low 40's at night. Pretty comfortable.

Water temp was 52 at five o'clock this evening.

Rain is in the forcast for the next two or three days. We need it. Don't want another fire season like the last one.

PG

PG, that is great news about Jaws! I am really happy to hear that she is improving! Wow 52 water temp??? That is nice!

So more black, or very dark, areas have reappeared on Jaw's snout. And a few BB sized black spots have now shown up on one side of her body, right about her mid-section.

She is swimming around normally and behaving as usual. And she doesn't have that white cotton fungus junk anymore ...

I'm hoping these dark areas are places where she is healing.

:huh: :mellow: :huh:

The black areas could be color changes or areas that are healing. Many of my goldfish have gotten black color where they are healing from an injury. If the black is where the skin or fins were torn or rotted, then that means it's healing. I think it's dead tissue.

Hi Robyn,

The black on her is where she used to be red and raw, from what ever was ailing her before.
The few black spots on her side are new ... but they are small and I may not have noticed them previously.

Thanks!!

PG

Jaws is thrashing around the pond in strange manner again.
Doesn't look good for her.
:(

PG

That really sucks PG. It makes a person feel so helpless when there is nothing they can do to help. :(

Yep, it does.

I'm still considering euthanizing, because she looks so miserable ... and because the others look so healthy.

I hope that what ever she's got isn't contagious.
Right now I only have a bunch of 20 gallon plastic containers. Not really big enough to isolate her in for any length of time.

PG

Add to that ... we are out of town on vacation all next week.
I hate to leave her while she's in that state.
Maybe she'll start recovering again in the interim. :mellow:

PG

I'm sorry she's worse again. Is it just the behavior that seems worse or does she look physically worse too?

Mostly the behavior ... but I was suprised when I saw the black on her return a couple of days ago.

Hi PG, that is very sad news about Jaws. I hope she is just healing. Maybe fish get itchy when they heal like humans do and that is why she was thrashing?? Well one can hope. Good luck! Elaine

Oh PG, I thought Jaws was out of the woods. :(
I hope that she will improve.
Not a good way to spend your vacation, worrying about your fish.
Let us know how she does and good luck!

Tia

Thanks Robyn, KK, & Tia,

She thrashed about yesterday when I approached the pond, so I let her be.

Today she is back to isolating herself in a corner at the very bottom. She has placed herself between the wall and a plant container. Same as she did before ... same spot.

I was going to vacuum the pond tomorrow, to get all the sediment and junk off the floor.
Not sure if that would make things worse or better.
I was thinking that the fish would like having the crud removed, as well as some new water added.
I'll try it, and if she freaks out again I'll stop right away so that she doesn't hurt herself.

Do you think that maybe she's going blind, and freaking out when she hears footsteps?
She doesn't seem to do the thrashing when I watch from the window.

PG

Nugget got tangled up in some string algae the other day. Not bad but I was able to get him out real easy. I have been removing the stuff every few days. I noticed last night that he was hanging out in a corner by himself. That isn't all that unusual but when I moved the cord that was near him he swam away then went right back. I'll have to keep an eye on him.

PG I guess that fish go blind. I never really thought about it before. She might feel the vibrations and she may be sensive to it right now. The poor girl. Sounds like you are doing all that you can for her. :) Don't you just hate waiting...

Tia

Yea, it is tough to just wait ... and hope.

I've never had a fish die in my pond before. Every goldfish or koi I put in there has done well. Five years at it now.
I guess two did get taken by predator before the net went up ... so technically, they didn't meet their maker in the pond.
I know it is inevitable though.

Nugget is a great name for a goldfish. Hope Nugget is OK too!

PG

I've had 3 pond deaths this winter. 2 were plain gold about 3 inches long each. The 3rd death is the male frog. A new lesson for next winter, block my outake on my skippy filter when I shut it down. Everything was closed up but that, so he probably crawled in. He was frozen solid. :(

You are very lucky Pool Guy to not have lost a fish in 5 years! I lose a few every year. In my pond, one or two per year usually get bloated, lay around, and slowly die.

Fish can certainly go blind but I don't know that that would make them thrash about. Severe nervousness can just be due to illness or stress. It's also possible that the goldfish is trying to "throw off" whatever is bothering her; it probably itches.

Finally entered the digital age .... my DW got a new camera! :)

Here's some pics of Jaws today

Pic of her left side. Black spot on nose.


Head on shot. Mouth looks a bit rumpled.


Right side. More black.


And some of the others. For no reason.


PG

Forgot to mention that she's behaving closer to normal again, and didn't freak out when I was at the pond edge.
She stays under the bridge most of the day and ocasionally swims with the others.
She hasn't been isolating herself the last couple of days.

Water temp was 54 deg F this morning.
Air temp is 77 deg F currently @ 3:45 pm.

Sorry about the large size on the photos ... just wanted to show detail.

PG

It looks like she has some bacterial mouth rot but it's healing. I'm not sure why the right gill would be black though. Was it also damaged before? It looks like the black healing and not a color change but I'm not 100% sure.

Hi Robyn,
Yes the right gill has been like that all along (since she started ailing). The left gill also used to look like that too.
The left gill black spot disappeared about 2 to 3 weeks ago.

Should I leave her in the pond and hope she heals, or remove and treat?

Thank you,
PG