Hi...I'm new to the group. I live in Northern VA and currently have two ponds, Pond #1 is 175 gallons and Pond #2 is 250 gallons. Pond #3, 300 gallons will be complete this summer. I've been ponding successfully for the last 9 years, and look forward to sharing experiences and info with this group.

I'm starting a new pond adventure, eastern painted turtles! I just added 3 babies, 2" diameter. They arrived from Florida on Tues. just in time for rain and chilly weather. They seem to be adjusting okay. They're not eating and not basking, but swimming and peeking out from under lily pads and water hyacinth.

My most pressing question is, do I need to add salt to the water? I've read on a few websites that 1 teaspoon of salt per gallon of water will protect them from skin and shell diseases. If yes, what kind of salt? NOT iodized I presume....

We're already planning Pond #4 to be a dedicated turtle pond with land access. Any experiences, suggestions and pics of this arrangement would be greatly appreciated. Thanks and have a great day.

Nope you dont have to add salt, you only do that if the turtle has a shell or skin issue already. It helps to heal it. So adding salt now wouldn't be doing anything for them

Hi Pencity and welcome to the forum :D I don't know a thing about turtles, lol, but just wanted to welcome you. Please feel free to share some pictures with us, we can't get enough of those :D There are lots of turtle pros on this forum so I am sure someone will be on soon to help you out. Enjoy your new pond building! KK

Salt deters predators, bacteria, funguses, etc. so it can be useful for turtles. In a pond, either a tablespoon per 5 gallons (easier to measure for small ponds) or so or 0.05%. The turtles will probably be fine without the salt if you don't want to bother.

My salt page - http://www.fishpondinfo.com/fishcare/salt.htm

My turtle pond page - http://www.fishpondinfo.com/turtles/turpond.htm

Good luck with the babies!

Got 2" turtles from Florida? Must have been from TurtleSales. Too bad, because many that are shipped from that place are not healthy. Furthermore, though it has not been rigorously enforced, it is a violation of federal law to sell or "adopt" out turtles of less than 4" length. Please do not order baby turtles from that source. It only encourages them to continue violating the law. Most of the babies obtained from them will not survive as they end up in the care of VERY uninformed people.

Now, about caring for your babies. What is the temperature of your water? This is crucial to the health of your babies. They need to have water at 75 to 80 degrees F until they are older. If your water is colder, it is probably the reason they are not eating. They are likely to develop respiratory infection and die within the next few weeks if they are left in lower temperatures. At 2 inches, they are not new hatchlings, which do not eat until they have used up the yolk they were born with. It would be best to keep them in a controlled environment with filtration, heater, turtle dock and uv lighting source. When they are in water 75 to 80 degrees, they will eat. Check out, if you like, the environment of my hatchling turtles, which were hatched from eggs layed in the land area around my pond, at the following:

http://donaldperry.spaces.live.com

and

http://youtube.com/dperry428

Also, if you are intending to keep turtles in a pond, you MUST have some kind of barrier around your pond to keep them from wandering off, which they WILL do if given the opportunity. I have a wall made from landscape blocks surrounding my pond.

Again, with turtles as small as yours, please make sure that their water temperature is AT LEAST 75 degrees, or I can guarantee you will likely have dead turtles very soon. Good Luck.

Don

Trully turtlesale is not violating any terms, it is legal to sell turtles under 4" for scientific use and not as a pet and in there terms thats what you agree too.


Most of the babies obtained from them will not survive as they end up in the care of VERY uninformed people- Too this you should research any pet, not blame the company for people not doing research.

Also another reason it could not be eating, it takes time for a turtle to adjust to a new enviroment before it will start eating.

Also at 2" turtle a min. is over half to a year old and would be fine in your pond. Eastern Painteds are the most cold tolerante species of the 4 painteds but still make sure pond is at least in the 60's

Painteds4life

I suggest that you go read the actual federal legislation. The legislation clearly states that the scientific or educational purposes must be bona fide. That means that if you are agreeing to those so-called terms of purchase that you are participating in a fraud if you are not an educational institution, recognized educational demonstration site, scientific research organization, or exporter. Those terms of purchse are an attempt by the owner to create a loophole directing liability from himself to the purchaser. I know that young people today seem to think it is OK to violate the law if you can a justify it with a rationalization, but be advised that if and when the federal government gets to investigating this source, they will do, as they have with other such establishments, follow the federal law's requirements and any and all turtles and eggs wll be confiscated and humanely destroyed. By making purchases or accepting "adoption" you are participating in illegal and unethical activity that encourages the deaths of scores of baby turtles that are sold or "adopted" out to, not just to those who understand and practice proper care of baby turtles, but also to those who do not. How many are purchased for children because the babies are "cute", but end up dying of malnutrition within a year because they are kept in inadequate conditions? You are also encouraging the circumvention of the intent of the law, that of protecting children from salmonella infection. As for the size and health of these baby turtles, one must consider that they have been raised in Florida, where they are adapted to those warm temperatures. I would not advise anyone putting turtles from Florida into waters in northern Virginia at this time of year or at least until the pond water temperatures are consistently above 75 degrees. The post even stated that the babies had arrived at a time when colder weather was expected. Even if the small size of the pond allowed temperatures to be temporarily near Florida temperatures, the small enclosure will cool very quickly. Young turtles are very susceptible to respiratory infection, especially when water temperatures change quickly. Rationalize all you want, but the legislation is clear and the legislative INTENT is very clear. There are those who argue that the legislation is unwarranted and want it repealed. It was created to prevent the infection of children with salmonella. The rationale was valid. Most baby turtles were purchased for young children who tend to put small objects in their mouths, kiss their "cute" pet and fail to wash their hands after handling them. There is currently a method, called the Siebling method, to eliminate Salmonella from turtle eggs and hatchlings that has been adopted and is now required of turtle farms in Louisiana. At the very least, check out the licensed turtle farms in that state and purchase your turtles from them. The method is currently under study by the federal government that may result in the eventual elimination of the ban on sales of hatchlings with the licensure of turtle farms and the requirement of the application of the Siebling method. In the meantime, I again encourage people NOT to buy, or accept for "adoption", baby turtles from sites that rationalize the violation of federal law. I mean no disrespect for your opinions, but in my opinion, you are dead (turtle) wrong.

Don

Okay...the turtles are from Empire of the Turtle....this guy is a turtle rehabilitator, when he finds dead turtles or a turtle he's tried to save doesn't make it, he harvests the eggs and raises the babies.  He seems like an excellent source....check out his site......did'nt mean to cause a big debate.Anyway my water is currently 64 degrees, it hasn't been lower than 60 since the babies were put in.  I do have fencing around the pond to keep them in and other critters out....also the water level is low enough that they can't climb out of the pond at their size.  There are plenty of rocks and cork bark for them to climb out on, but even today in 73 degrees and sunny they stayed in the hyacinth roots and hair algae.

Don has been very strong in his words and for good reason. I agree with him. But, we also shouldn't be too harsh on those that have obtained baby turtles without knowing it was illegal. I really want people to give those turtles the best care once they already have them. I also tell people not to buy from Turtlesale.com. Their banners keep coming up on this forum (run by Invision Free, not me but that does NOT mean I endorse them). They also stole at least one photo from my web site to put on their web site. I don't know how they get away with what they do. They say it's because you're "adopting" the turtles and not buying them. Huh, I thought paying money meant buying? For those who really want babies, they need to know the proper care and adopt the babies from a rescue like Penguincity did or from a licensed breeder. That said, it is still technically illegal.

Here is the actual law:
http://www.tortoise.org/general/4inch.html
I myself talked to the Maryland people in charge of turtles. They told me that there was absolutely no way that I could ever legally own/possess a turtle under 4" myself in the state of MD. And yet, if I were Chinese and wanted to "harvest" hundreds of babies to be shipped to China for breeding or eating, I could easily get a permit. Those DNR people were as mad about that as I and thought the law was plain wrong. This was when Tator was a baby. They told me not to worry about someone knocking on my door to take him away but they could have legally done that. I was happy when he made it over 4".

Don, I understand putting baby turtles in a pond that's colder than what they are used to could cause an upper respiratory infection and other problems. But, wouldn't turtles who were accustomed to those temperatures naturally be in a pond outside if they were wild? So, is it the actual temperature that's the problem or just changes in temperature?

Penguincity, it's perfectly normal for baby turtles to want to hide. They're scared and want to stay hidden in shallow water where they feel safe and don't have to swim too hard.

Robyn

Baby turtles are normally hatched in the late spring/early summer when water temperatures are higher and they have the whole summer to grow, develop and mature enough to withstand hibernation. When they hatch, they head out for water and generally seek shallower areas where the water warms quickly instead of the depths where water is colder. Turtle eggs layed later in the summer will mature to hatch in late summer/early fall. The hatchlings will generally stay in the nest and go into a hibernative state within the nest and not emerge until the next spring, living off the yolk for the entire winter. This overwintering in the nest is not the best of circumstances as there is a higher mortality of those hatchlings. They are also much more vulnerable to predation. Of course, I'm talking here of turtle species that are not in tropical or subtropical areas. When one of my female Western Painteds layed eggs on July 7th, I knew the eggs would be hatching end of September to first of October and that the hatchlings would likely overwinter in the nest. It was for the above reasons that I intervened with nature and carefully dug up the nesting site the first week of October, removed the hatchlings and placed them in a turtle habitat with filter, heater, turtle dock and uv lighting. Those were the babies of which I made my videos. They were kept at 78 degrees and grew to their current size in excess of 2/12 to 3 inches. They will go to the pond once the water temperature is above 75, which is going to be later this year with the cold spring we've had.

So, in answer to your question, yes, in nature's world, baby turtle hatches are planned to usually assure that the hatchlings will be able to be raised in warm water. If circumstances don't allow this, such as the especially cold spring we are still experiencing, there will be a much higher mortality of hatchlings. Coincidentally, my daughter-in-law last week found a newly hatched Western Painted laying in the grass next to the school where she works. She called me to ask what she should do since the turtle was barely able to move. I told her to take it inside and get it into some shallow water, which she did. Sadly, it was too late. The little thing died before the end of the day. I can't be sure of its cause of death. It might have been dehydrated, but I suspect it was just not able to get to warm water soon enough. Normally, the temperatures here would be consistently in the mid to upper seventies and the turtle would have had a good chance of survival, but this year we have consistently been in the 60's with only an occasional day in the low 70's. Baby turtles do need warmer temps. And, yes, turtles are sensitive to rapid CHANGES in temperature, even adult turtles. Those who keep turtles in aquaria should try to maintain the same temperature when doing water changes or cleaning a turtle tank. A rapid change in water temps, especially from warmer to colder can compromise a turtles ability to fight infection. In spite of knowing this, I still wonder why turtles can bask in the hot sun, getting really heated up and then jump back into the cooler water. Why don't they get sick then??????? I don't know. Only a turtle can answer that.

Stress, dehydrated lack of food, all factors , who knows how long it was there if it was left out over night would be colder then water, I know temps of water is in the 60's but at night temps still dropping in the 50s. That would be a big drop in temp for it to go to 70 in the day and go to in the 50s at night. Probably what did it in.

Im still gonna say hers her are safe going with the 60s. Honestly all my turtles have now been moved outside water is in the 60s. Hatchlings her were laid May 1st this year last time who spent the whole lives in in water 75 are now out in water, im not worried. 3rd year with hatchlings doing this, Musk first, Western, Southern, Eastern.(Southern though i put when water hit 70), now we go with musks again.

Also her turtles are at least a year old and not hatchlings anymore

All I did at hottest point of day take them out and then slowly water temp dropped as day went to night.

Been doing this now 5 years with oldest turtle and others.


Also i dont support buying from turtlesale either or any turtle farm or feel that turtles should be really sold, most large turtles and up being housed in small tanks and die at petstores or homes.

If you would really want a turtle find breeders, I know there are good ones out there that can be found, they ask for photos of housing and supplies for turtle is even given to you.

With the Eastern turtle and her eggs all but one i throw in the trash smash eggs first for some reason with res eggs I didnt smash them, and i have visions of the res hatching a land fill area X>X, anyway and if that turtle hatches its going to someone I know who has been looking to get a turtle and will spend the money.

How many poeple to make room for two turtles would spend over $500 like I just did, not many.