I just found this forum (fabulous!), so I hope I'm doing this right. I currently have an approximately 225 gallon rigid form pond. It's just a year old, but I'm seriously considering expanding and using a flexible liner. The pond is part of a raised garden bed that I built last year. It contains two comets, two shebunkins purchased last year and a dozen or so of their little offspring. I'd like to increase water volume by adding depth and length as well as the ability to add a skimmer. I'll probably end up with about 800 to 900 gallons.

My dilemma/question concerns my rather obsessive Border Collie. She occasionally ends up in the pond if she wants a quick cool down. All of my dogs drink from it, but only one has gone in. It doesn't happen often, but I'm worried about the potential damage to a flexible liner. Does anyone else have any experience with dogs and flexible liners? Can a liner survive dog nails? Are any more puncture resistant than others?

Thanks,
Donna

I know my friend was always getting holes in her soft liner from her Collie...it was always too much of a pain to fix, so for several years her pond was only ever as deep as the lowest puncture!  I personally prefer rigid because I'd go crazy worrying about holes....but there may be better products now.  Another friend actually used some kind of liner that her brother used in the roofing trade, it was thicker than average pond liner....maybe someone knows something about this.....

Hi Donna, The roofing liner( which is not fish safe due to additives that the industry applies) is what's called EPDM it comes in the standard 45 mil thickness or heaver 60 mil. Also you should look at BTL which has and even better puncture resistance. I have heard of many people with dogs that have the same problem so don't give up on a flexible liner. Whatever you decide on do not use PVC it has very low puncture resistance. There have been other threads with more info in this section that should help you. Hope this helps :)

FM3

Thank you both for your input. When I found this site yesterday, I did spend some time looking for information regarding dogs in ponds, but couldn't find any specific references. That doesn't mean there aren't any, just that I didn't stumble across them. (I couldn't get the search function to work.) I did, however, find tons of other useful information! I did see a post about the BTL liners and spent some time on their website. They show a picture of a moose standing in the middle of a pond, so I guess the stuff must be pretty tough. Of course, I have no idea which product it is and what else is on the bottom of the pond, but it was a neat picture. I sent away for a free sample and will do some in-house puncture tests. :)

I usually set up a kiddie pool for Zoe (the Border Collie) to splash around in once the weather warms up. She doesn't actually like to swim, just likes shallow water to do a little body surfing in, so that should help to keep her out of the pond. She is completely fixated on the fish in the pond, though. And really, nothing can fixate quite like a Border Collie. She stalks them unmercifully (fish seem oblivious and will come right over to the side hoping for food) from the edge of the pond, but so far hasn't done them any harm. I have another young Border Collie who views the pond as nothing more than a really large water bowl, showing no other interest at all.

Anyway, I am pretty determined to give the flexible liner a shot and hope for the best. Worst case is that I end up going back to a rigid form. While I'd rather not have another do-over, even after increasing the size it will still be a smallish pond.

Donna

I no longer have dogs myself but used to (he never got in). I have had dogs in my pond however thanks to neighbors as well as other animals like deer and raccoons. My ponds have not been punctured. 45 mil EPDM is what I have, and it's pretty puncture resistant. I would worry more about the mess that will result from a dog swimming around in the pond, knocking over pots and such.

The story of the dogs in my pond can be found here:
http://www.fishpondinfo.com/mammals.htm#dog

You are SO lucky! I want a border collie more than anything but have been forbidden from even mentioning the word dog. It feels really weird to even type it. At our house, they're called "unmentionables." There's a void in my life since I'm not allowed to have a dog in it. I can't even pet other people's dogs at the store (they'd think I was super weird, and they'd be right!).

I suggest fencing in your pond to keep your dog out of the pond. It will save trouble in the long run. If not, then a preformed pond would be better if you're worried about punctures. You could also double line the pond (would cost more obviously).

Good luck! Give your doggies a hug from me!

Thanks Robyn! I'm gradually working my way through your website; it's really a wealth of information and a great read. Border Collies are fabulous dogs as long as you're willing to give them something to do to keep their minds and bodies engaged. Zoe tends to be more obsessive than average, which makes her quite a challenge. I read your horror story about your neighbor's dogs! Nice neighbors you have there.

We actually have three dogs, two Border Collies (both rescues) and one Field Spaniel. Luckily only one is interested in the pond. I'm thinking that I might be OK with a liner; or at least it's worth a try. I plan to make the pond deeper (2 - 2.5'), with straight sides. Zoe doesn't like deep water. When she goes in now, it's only because she can step down on the plant shelves. Even then, she's tentative about it. She manages to avoid the plants. I'll use stands in the new pond for the plants. I think she'll be very reluctant to just dive in (although she's big enough to get out should she end up in there. I'll happily take a torn liner over a drowned dog.) I hadn't thought of a double liner. The pond isn't going to be all that big, so it may be possible to double the liner. Fencing the pond itself won't work. It would really impact the area visually, so I'd stay with the preformed liner before I did that. Luckily my yard is fenced, so deer and stray dogs aren't a problem. I'll also get the kiddie pool out, since it's supposed to get warmer this weekend. She loves the kiddie pool.

As soon as I get the sample from BTL and poke at it a bit, I'll decide between it and the 45ml EPDM. I have a small piece of an unidentified liner that I used in a bog filter; even that's pretty tough and I don't think it's the best quality.

I hope that you get to have a dog some day (or two or three!). I can't imagine not having them in my life. I'll give them each an extra hug from you tonight. They like hugs...not as much as they like food, of course; they are, after all, dogs. :)

Donna

Well, to follow up on my own question about dogs and liners.....I received a sample of PPL-24 liner from BTL, and I have to say the I don't think there is any way that my dog could puncture it. I couldn't even poke scissors through it. Granted, they were kitchen shears and not super pointy, but still sharper than my dog's nails! It has a kind of woven texture to it and isn't at all "rubbery". Anyway, I think I'm going to use it for my revamped pond.

Donna