Here is my story, I am orginally from Louisiana but moved to northeaster TN about two years ago. Brought with me a fiberglass sugar kettle about 4' wide and last yr. decided to set up a pond on my small patio...well, I added natural stone and my previous fountain and one plant, then some goldfish...well, in the beginning I did lose some small goldfish but eventually ended up with 6 fish (they were doing great and were healthy). One was about 2" long and the other approx. 1" long. All was going well and then decided to over winter them outside. Bought a cattle trough heater (only cycles on to keep water unfrozen) and kept water free of debris. All was fine all winter until Feb. when all of a sudden, I saw one poor little fish floating...then within a couple of day...all were gone. I was broken hearted. Don't know what I did wrong and need to know how I might prevent this again. I am now setting up again after cleaning everything. Could use any help and would be appreciative of any help. Thanks!

I think people will need to know if you were monitoring your pH and nitrate levels, water volume etc before they could offer advice.

I was monitoring ph in the summer but after that, did not...and did not monitor nitrate and that is what I believe did them in but do not know. I did not know you had to monitor constantly. How often are you to monitor? Will pick up new kits today. The kits in pet stores for equariums are the ones to use for outside pond?

I watch my fish a lot so I generally only check pH about once a month and nitrates every now and then (less frequently over winter) unless the fish are looking stressed or gulping at the surface or behaving oddly. Then the first thing I do is bring out the testing kits.

I do it more regularly when the water starts to warm up after winter though because that is when it is most likely to go haywire - at my place at least. My fish are active all winter but they do slow down. I think the amount of bacteria in the pond drops over winter and it doesn't speed up its activity as quickly as the fish do so the pond is a bit out of balance for a while.

If you have enough filtration it usually settles pretty quickly. I usually add some bacteria to speed up the process.

I only have a couple of small ponds on my verandah so I am in a similar situation to you.

Of course I don't know anything about your temperatures etc being from another part of the world but I am sure someone who does know will come along and help you soon.

Thanks Maggie, this am went and measured my pond and it hold approx. 55 gal., according to my calculations. It is not very deep (approx. 15 inches) so I wonder if that could be my problem. How big are your containers? Do you think 3 fish would be too much for this container? I had six and they seemed perfectly fine but of course died in Feb. Our summers are generally 80 to 90 degrees in summer and cold in winter. Can be in the teens. The top can freeze over and the pond is above ground that is why I used trough heater. Do you have plants in your containers? This is possible only in summer here, as in winter they freeze. Also, I do not get very much direct sun light on pond at all, have a shady patio surrounded by large trees. I also watch fish a great deal and did notice something was wrong, but did not know how to handle. I appreciate your help.

Was the pond frozen over when the fish died (except for where the heater was)? What was the water temperature? If the pond was frozen over, then, even with the hole in the ice, the fish could have suffered from lack of oxygen. I'm not sure what the lowest temperatures are there in TN but 15" may not be deep enough. A 55 gallon tub is not very big. My 50 gallon tub pond is 3' across and freezes at least half way down in the winter here in MD. Also, since the pond was small, if the pond was melted out from the heater, it may have been too warm. If a small tub pond is too warm in the winter, the fish will be more active than they should be. The thermostats are supposed to shut the heaters off but temperatures change faster in small ponds. If the temperature goes up and down a lot, that is stressful for the fish.

It's not likely that high ammonia or nitrite would be a problem in the winter. Those two are toxic at low levels. Nitrate is not toxic at low levels and rarely a problem. When nitrate goes up, algae or plants grow to use it. I only test my pond a few times a year or if I suspect a problem. When you had that first fish die, that would have been a good time to double check the readings. Yes, you can use the tests for freshwater aquaria on ponds.

I personally wouldn't suggest keeping goldfish outside long term in anything under about 100 gallons (not only for room sake but stability). Goldfish can grow over a foot long. A 55 gallon indoor aquarium (a more controlled setting) could hold 2 to 4 middle-aged goldfish. If your goldfish were all tiny, they probably weren't technically overcrowded yet in your 55 gallon tub pond.

I hope things work out well from now on!

I tend to forget that it is still very cold there in February.

See someone did come along to help.

I have 3 year old goldfish (about 4" not counting the tail already) in my approx 80g (310L or so) pond and I think it is too small. I am going to at least double the size in spring but I also have 4 babies to go in as well.

I have the 4 babies, around an inch long, in a 32g to 35g - even with 4 fish that size and with cool weather I still need to do filter cleaning about 3 times a fortnight to keep the water in good condition but then I also have at least 4 tadpoles/almost frogs in there as well.

My 3 above ground ponds are only 35cm deep (14" ?) but the water doesn't come close to freezing where I live so it's ok. New pond will be at least 50cm deep.

I have plants in my ponds - some grassy reedy things that are the only thing I have found that the fish don't eat, some elodia, and some small ferny floating plants the name of which escapes me atm - starts with "a". I have a wider range in summer but the fish eat them faster than they can grow when it gets cold - we are in the last few days of Autumn now - so I put them in the lily pond to keep them alive for next spring.

One of the good things about this site is that when you notice something is wrong and you don't know what to do there is always someone around who will try to help.

Hi Decout! I would say it was probably from lack of aeration! Robyn is right, it could have been from the temp fluctuating too much from the heater as well. Ponding is all about trial and error and asking other people what works for them!

Thanks everyone...I still don't feel 100% about everything, but guess it is just trial and error. I know this may seem crazy but since I had only 6 fish and had become quite attached....I felt so guilty for their demise. My family and friends all wanted to replace immediately but I just wanted to make sure that I was more knowledgable before my next attempt. This time I am only going with 3 fish (approx. 2" size). I have set the pond up, it takes me a while to get stones in the correct position for fountain and before I get fish, may try to move it to the sunniest part of patio. It is a very small area and I do not have lots of options. The size will not change, it is what I have and do not have the space for anything larger (it measures 4'x4 across). Oh, Robyn when they died the pond was not frozen whatsoever, it had been a warm spell and yes, I did have a thermometer in the pond and the water was approx. 40 degrees. The fountain was working and up to that point had been sufficient O2 (or so I thought). Guess, I will not know, but will try to do something in the future. If it is nitrate and water is to be added, do you just siphon out a certain amount and then add water? What do you do about chlorine in this situation. Add drops at that time? Also, need to ask about pond salt, what type to get and when to add and why add? Do I need to add anything else to water before fish? Know that I have lots of questions, but seems like this is the place for answers. Thank you all!! I look forward to reading your posts. :)

We become attached to a fish the same as we would any pet...but only us "fish people" get it!

Yes, just add the declorinator at the same time as you add the water. As for the salt, some people use it religiously, other people never use it. Everyone will say their way is the right way! hahaha...you will have to decide for yourself. I only use it if I think there is a reason too, but not all the time.

I think sometimes we have to accept that fish are going to die, and we will never know why. All you can do is try your best for them, and there isn't much that can be done after that. We try and learn from our mistakes as we move forward, but we will never know everything!

Best of luck!

Derrick

I've lost many freshwater fish in my life but it's been a while since I've lost a lot of fish or a new fish. I just lost one of my two new saltwater fish today so I better feel what you guys feel when you set up a new pond and something goes wrong, and everybody dies. Of the 27 animals I've put in my new saltwater tank in the last month, 19 have died. It's so hard!

My page on salt is at http://www.fishpondinfo.com/fishcare/salt.htm
I think my "fishy helpers" answered your other questions.
When I clean out my 153 gallon pond, I add salt, dechlorinator (in my case for heavy metals since I have well water), and good bacteria (optional). You can add the dechlorinator a little before and a little after adding water. If you can add it during, that's ideal.

The first 3 fish I had died in similar circumstances except it was in Spring. I rang the guy at the pond shop where I bought them for advice about what to do but doing what he told me to do only made them die quicker.

I felt dreadfully guilty and still do. That is why I am so paranoid and when it comes to making a decision about any changes to my fish's environment.

I did a lot of internet research after that. There is a lot of advice out there - a lot of it good, a lot of it bad, most of it, good and bad, for fish in aquaria.

I don't know what killed mine but when I set the pond up again to get new fish I cleaned it out several times - got new rocks, etc filled it up, dechlorinated, put the pump,filter and fountain in, put the plants in, added bacteria and let it run for a month adding bacteria at the recommended intervals. Checked all the levels (pH, ammonia etc) and then put the new fish in. Checked the levels every day for a couple of weeks had to do one 50% water change because of ammonia and had to tweak the pH a couple of times. Since then it has been pretty stable - the change from Winter to Spring being the most unstable time

Had to add another filter though because the fish have grown so quickly.

I thought goldfish would be really easy to keep but they are aliens - ask me about dog psychology, dog problem solving, dog training, even some cat psychology - no problem, lot of vets around who are good with mammals not so many who are good with fish.


All you can do is your best. It is trial and error to some extent.

When I get up in the morning, I let my dogs out and check my fish. When I am going to bed at night I put fruit out for the possums and I check my fish. I love just sitting on the verandah and watching them at any time of day. They are alien and it is very stressful when something goes wrong (I keep wondering how I will get them out if we have a bush fire) but they are addictive.

I want a koi pond ;) but my whole yard is on rock :(

Thanks Maggie, sounds just like me except I live in a condo with just one furbaby, Maude an English Bulldog or should I say English Bullbaby....I have made a change of career and went back to school last year but every morning I take care of Maude and checked to see if my fish were okay. When it got cold, they were not quite as visible but with the pond deicer saw more of them. They were growing and really seemed to be thriving until that horrible week. I have been on internet but need to narrow search to really small ponds. When they go to talking about large ponds, it really does not seem to apply to my situation. I can't even make a decision about what kind of bacteria to add and what type of algae control to buy. I live in a small town and there really is no variety here, so will have to get it through the internet. I know that my pond is small and I calculated around 50 gallons because I added the dispersement of water from large rocks. I have tried to cut back on amount of rocks for my fountain in hopes that it will provide more water room. Looking for some water plants at the moment. Think I will only try for maybe two fish when I get them. Plan to buy a little larger fish (maybe 3"). I also plan to buy a little larger pump next time. I appreciate all your help and advice and will be grateful for any you have to give. :)

If you can't dig down, build up! My pond is in a raised garden bed. I just used inexpensive landscape block. Digging down in my yard was difficult due to extensive tree roots.

I noticed in your signature that you have dogs. The GSD is a German Shepherd Dog, yes? What about the GSP x Mastiffs. German Short-haired pointer crossed with Mastiff???? I have Border Collies, as I've mentioned before, as well as a Field Spaniel and have trained and shown in obedience and agility.

Donna

Donna,
I saw your post with photos but don't quite see the raised bed and landscape block of your pond. We are in the process of building a pond using landscape block as the sides and would love to see how you did it.
Is it at all possible for you to take that kind of photo and post it?
Christina

Hi Christina,

I'll look and see if I have any that show the block. If not, I can snap a couple tomorrow and post them. My budget only allowed the use of inexpensive block, so it's nothing special, but they look neat and tidy and do the job, so I'm happy. The only hard part about using them is getting the bottom course level. After that, it's a snap. Mine were about 32 lbs. each, so a little bit of a work out for me. Some blocks require that each course is set back a bit from the one below. Mine aren't like that. I wanted the walls to go straight up. Mine are actually glued together using some special landscape block glue. The wall survived it's first winter without any movement or cracking.

I'm certainly not an expert, but I'm happy to answer any questions if I'm able.

Donna

:D I have suggested to my DH that we could replace part of the dog fencing with a wall and then put in a pond in front of the wall. We don't get frozen ponds here so it would be ok. He just looked at me, shook his head and walked away.

GSD is German Shepherd Dog and GSP is German Shorthaired Pointer. The pointer crosses are brothers and sister all from the RSPCA.

I don't do obedience for shows I do "social" training - companion dog training etc but I also do Schutzhund with my shepherd.

The people next door have Border Collies - they are delightful. They come in to play with ours. It is really great to watch.

Christina - I just posted some pictures under the "Testing Picture Posting" topic. I'm rebuilding my pond and the pictures show it torn back to basics. Let me know if you have any questions.
Donna