http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/p...6154623416.html



i can't find the other testimonies that i've read on various homepages.


the problem is:

if i design my pond without plant pockets, it will be a done deal -

i think ill do the following:


design the pond with many plant pockets - but not fill the pockets with soil, gravel, tablets, sand, kittylitter, nor anything except for the lily tuber and a few 12" long flat stones - this may be a good idea for the following two reasons:

1. if i ever find it preferable to use soil, i will have that option and can place my countainers of soil/gravel directly into the pockets; and

2. i suspect that by creating a free space in the empty pockets for the roots to expand in and just cover the hole with large flat rocks WITHOUT actually filling the space INSIDE of the hole with rock or anything but the tuber roots, this will be better then crushing the tuber with flat stones directly upon its mass. The rock, therefore, will keep the fish from eating the roots and all the roots that exscape - they can be grazed on and 'cut back' by the fish. If there were no fish in the pond, i could just have no pockets -

*i could just have no pockets and take the risk of just putting the tubers in 2" of gravel like many on those forums do but i dont want to risk having trouble in dividing them or regretting not having installed pockets.

Well, just pick something to try and stick with that. Personally, I would still put some pea gravel in there too as it provides an anchor for the roots to support the plant. I don't know if just a big rock would hold the plants in the right position as they grow.

Do you feel as though placing the tubbers in 8" deep pockets of 3/8" pea gravel or 1" stones would provide the lily tuber system with the same access to freely floating nutrients as would alternatively be provided if the tuber were to not be planted at all - since oxygen can get in and even though the pocket it 8" deep, the tuber and roots may only be on the top 2". this matter is very confussing for me and crucial, i think.


or maybe i can take fishing line and tie each tuber down to a single narrow stone - would that harm the tuber as it grows larger and the line cuts into it like a permenent rope around a developing tree limb or trunk?

Plants need not only nutrients but support for their roots and to hold the plants upright and in the right position. If you stuck the roots just in the water and held down by a few rocks, I could imagine a number of things going wrong. An animal such as a raccoon or even dog or cat could move the rock, thus leaving the lily completely loose. Everytime a plant is removed from its position of growth, it causes a setback if the plant is not already 100% free growing. Also, I don't think that would provide the plant with the support it needs to hold its position. Taken to extremes, if you did this with something like cattails or some iris, they would probably keep flopping over. That's why I think some pea gravel is advantageous. The smaller the gravel, the more root support you get and the closer you get to having something like clay dirt. At the same time, the smaller the gravel, the less water circulation that you have which is one of your aims in your case. So, I think a compromise would work of using moderately large pea gravel, not all the way up to river stone size though but even that is better than just one big rock. I'm thinking about 1/2" to 1" pea gravel.

You could tie the tubers to an anchoring rock; it might keep it more in place than not doing that. I wouldn't worry about fishing line cutting it. I do wonder though if having roots exposed to sunlight is a good idea. While I have no proof, it seems to me that ideally roots would be in the dark. I wonder if there's a difference in the biochemical processes of the roots if they are in the sun or not.

you may have a good point - they are designed to be dormant.

how about a tray that is wide and shalllow full of gravel - heard they are hard to divide in gravel beds

If the gravel is large enough, say 1", the roots are going to be less stuck in it. When I pull up plants in my pea gravel (it has many sizes of rocks), the roots are all entertwined with the rocks. Sometimes, they are hard to pull during growing season, and I have to wait until winter to pull out the plants I don't want there.

would you expect that harvesting native yellow and white blooming lilies and placing them directly in the bottom of my pond - 2" mixed gravel - and waiting till after growing season to remove and divide if and when necessary will be a problem.

i still cant figure out wheather i will be able to get some nice blooms from just pond water because, now that i think of it, every one's pond water has greately varying factors - even when we speak of the contents of the water straight from the tap - some have a lot of phosphorus and minerals....

im building in spring and i guess what ill wind up doing it building empty plant pockets in case i need them one day.

I think it's all going to be somewhat of an experiment for you because as you say, each pond situation is different. What works for one pond setup may not work for another. Native water lilies may spread more than non-natives or they may be less invasive, I'm not sure. Go ahead and try it and see. If you're putting in plant pockets, you might as well try those too. You can't have too many plants! Why don't you try the various things we've discussed in the various locations of the pond. Over time, you will find what doesn't and does work for you and your pond.

i will - but what can i do with 8" deep plant pockets if i find out they werent necessary - fill with boulders or large stones, i suppose.
they take up liner room and cause crease difficulties - but better to have them then regret not installing them.

You can make mini-ponds! They could have various plants like floating ones or submerged ones only if you want to avoid planting in them. They could also hold small fish or be a fry nursery. Or, perhaps you could leave a connection from the pocket to the main pond so they'd really just be part of the main pond.