I am interested in knowing more about your experience with animals such as frogs and fish 'foolishly' deciding to overwinter on the shallow margins of the pond and being frozen into the ice - whereas, they would have, of course, survived if they went to the deeper portions of the pond.


Do you think that for a 12 x 12 pond, one shelf which is only 6" deep and the second shelf only 12" deep - do you think its unwise to make the first shelf as much as 18" wide around the circumfrence of the pond and the second [12" deep] shelf as much as 12" wide around the circumfrence on the pond?


the rest will be 18", 24", & 30" deep so that it not a problem...


*is it reasonable to expect that i might be able to "shew", is that a real word :), the little frogs and tadpoles out of the margins before the ice sets? once the water is really cold, i bet that the fish and frogs that i have scared to flee to the deeper part (away from the margins) will be too inactive to swim around the pond and find themselves on the shelves.

In my shallow tub ponds that freeze solid, there have been lots of tadpoles that I was unable to move in time that froze in and decomposed. In my 153 gallon pond, I don't think any animals have frozen in as the shallow area is not very big and the other shallow area is mostly kept open by the de-icer and aerator. In my 1800 gallon pond, since 1997, I have removed maybe four goldfish frozen solid in the ice. I believe there were two last year or the year before when it was really cold. One was in the main marginal area, in the most shallow part. She may have swam up there, became slowed down by the cold, and then froze in. Another was frozen in the surface of the deep area near the pump. That fish may have been ill, coming up for oxygen, and froze in. It's not common for fish to freeze in. It only happens on occasion. I wouldn't worry much about it. Trying to scare fish to the shallows only works if you're by the pond all the time which I doubt. Also, once the surface freezes, it's often semi-opaque so that all you can make out is there's an orange thing (goldfish) swimming in the liquid water under the ice. He probably can't see you so he's not going to move, and, if he stays there, he could freeze in. My fish swim in the shallow marginal area under the ice during the winter on occasion and usually make it back to the deeper areas before things freeze further. Sometimes, they don't move in time as they start to freeze. Those fish may be ill or less strong or simply in the wrong place (shallows) at the wrong time (as the temperature plummets quickly).

Your shallow area that you intend to create is not as large as mine so problems are less likely. I don't think you need to alter your plans.

As for frogs, I've found dead ones in the bottom a lot (not from freezing, perhaps lack of oxygen or a fungal infection) but I don't think I've ever found one frozen in the ice in my two main ponds (that don't freeze solid). This is because they stay in the deep bottom usually from the start. I have found a few in tub ponds that frozen solid with the frogs too who picked the wrong pond. In my two main ponds, the tadpoles too seem to know to stay deeper. I may have found a few that froze in but not many.

speaking of pump - you have a skimmer, right?


i wonder if its cost effective to buy, as i intend, an aquascape, rather then assembling all the parts, if you are familiar with that systems features...


cause i want to know if i can not use the skimmer in the winter cause im afraid it would crack and instead i just wanna have the pump in the pond and it flowing upward so i dont have to worry about it being blocked by ice - since i guess the ice would go deeper then the skimmer and i cant keep it open with just an airstone and cant afford to keep that deicer running.

I do not have any skimmers. In my pond, they would suck in too many small animals and plants. Skimmers are good for ponds that only feature big fish.

I know of the basic AquaScape parts - skimmer and "Biofalls." I don't know if there kits cost more or less than the individual parts but if you get the parts separately, you can custom make it to what you want to do.

Not having had a skimmer, I wonder too about the ice situation. Since they're at the same level as the pond, if the system is off, you'd think the entire skimmer would freeze solid and cracks could occur. Does anyone who's reading this have a skimmer? What happened over winter?