How can you tell and rule out dropsy if a goldfish is pregnant?...

Is there a foolproof way or is it simply a guess that the sides are bulging?


Thx,
adreamer2

Egg-laden - fish slightly enlarged pretty much equally on both sides but may be more on one side, enlarged vent (where eggs and waste come out), no deformed scales, does not last once the fish lays the eggs in a few days; one may not even notice a change in the fish's size (goldfish and koi grow larger than a lot of the smaller tropical fish; if you think a fish is fat, it usually is not just egg-laden but in trouble).

Dropsy - fish grossly enlarged, scales stick out, comes on quickly, may or may not be equal on both sides, fish stops eating, trouble swimming, hard to treat, death comes pretty quickly or fish may spontaneously recover if in the early stages

Tuberculosis, egg binding infection, internal infection related enlargements - fish grows large over a few months, lumpy sides, unequal swelling, spine possibly kinked, abnormally shaped, may live a while like this, treatment near impossible for tb anyway

Kidney malfunction - fish grows humongous but slowly over months or years such that the scales do not stick out, may live quite a while like that, no treatment but salt in the water helps with the osmotic problem

Here is my section on "Why is my fish fat?":
http://www.fishpondinfo.com/health4.htm#fat

Excellent link, Robyn... Thx!!!

Here's the thing.... I've noticed that two of my fish are swimming erratic.... One seems to chase the other... The skinnier little guy is chasing the fish I call "Donut"... Donut is pretty big.... I had it for a year and I never knew the sex of it... I originally bought it as a feeder for 12 cents....

Poor Donut just wants to get away from the skinnier one.... I guess you could call it "evasive maneuvers"..... Kinda bothered me for a minute... I almost whacked it, but decided to just see why "she" doesn't like "him".....

I read your site and got more info.....

Now Donut appears to be rounded near the anal vent on both sides.... so it could be carrying roe.... But, I thought.. well Donut was always kinda big....

I don't know....

There are two fish that are pretty big in the belly right now....


Thx,
Adreamer2

The chasing and spazing is definitely indicative of spawning behavior. Males may chase any fish but since Donut is rotund, there is a good chance that indeed she's a girl.

Thx Robyn! I was thinking along those lines.....

Now, this will be the first time that I've ever seen the spawn of goldies....

Can you suggest what material I should use to have the eggs attach?.... This is all news to me so I don't know anything about this....

However, that skinny little runt of a goldfish is not chasing Donut now... But, she is still rounded at the belly, but even moreso, she looks ready to "blow"....

Should I take her out?....

My problem, if I need to take the male out, is that there are so many that look like him, I don't know which one is him....

What do I do?.....


Thx,
Adreamer2

These are aquarium goldfish? They may like to spawn on java moss, plants like anacharis, or an artificial spawning mop (see http://www.fishpondinfo.com/breed.htm#sites ). As long as the fish aren't harming Donut, you can leave them together. If she appears to be harmed, then you should separate her from the others. An egg-laden goldfish should not look ready to "blow" so she may have a problem with an internal bacterial infection as well as being female and/or egg laden.

I did notice that she has lost some coloring on the bottom side of her belly..... I thought maybe it could be due to a rubbing from the other little skinny fish.... Also, she may have been chased by two little skinny characters in there...

But, one side of her is kinda white where the coloration should be orangeish....


Adreamer2

That sort of washing out of the enlarged areas is pretty common with internal bacterial infections like dropsy, fish tuberculosis, egg rot, etc. In a fish that is just egg-laden, very little color change occurs. Stress often causes fish to lose some color as well and just being chased and big is stressful for goldfish. Of course, rubbing may also cause stress or actual physical removal of colored scales (in which case infection becomes a concern).

Should I take her out and treat her or should I just get some soft substrate to lay eggs (if that is the case)....???

Thx,
Adreamer2

I don't know for sure which problem(s) she may have. Can you post a photo of her? I might be able to tell you more. It certainly won't hurt to put in some soft substrate for the fish. As removing the fish and treating would be stressful, it's important to figure out what's going on first. If the other fish are still bothering her a lot, moving her may be less stressful. You can also treat the tank with all the animals in it with some aquarium salt (a tablespoon per 3 gallons or so) and MelaFix which is all natural (fights bacteria and funguses) as general tonics for poor health when you don't know for sure what's going on since those two things are safe to use in almost all situations. [When would it not be safe? For example, if you had highly salt intolerant fish. Goldfish do well with some salt. As far as I know, MelaFix is totally safe.]

Sounds easy enough.... My digital camera had become broken so I can't get a picture.....

Well, Donut is not being chased anymore, but she still looks heavy in the gut..... She is definitely bulging....

I take it I should remove my snails before the salt and melafix, huh?

Oh, and she is bulging at the vent as stated, yes....

How long can they stay in this state before it becomes a problem and if there is no fertilizing at the time, what can I do to relieve her?


Adreamer2

If she's been large for a long time, she either is large for reasons other than eggs (such as an internal bacterial infection like dropsy or kidney problems) or she is egg bound. At this point, neither a male or hand striping (which only experts should do anyway) would help. Injections of antibiotics would do the most good but unless you have a fish vet nearby (none around here!), you're probably out of luck. So, adding antibiotics to the water is the best you can do. I've found Maracyn I and II are safe. I used penicillin once about 10 years ago. It killed the good bacteria, the ammonia shot through the roof, and all the fish died but a few (the main survivor being my pleco who is still alive 10 years later and 14" long).

MelaFix is completely safe for all aquarium animals and plants. You don't have to remove the snails. Snails are also tolerant of some salt, probably up to a tablespoon per few gallons.

Looks like the "chase" is still on..... Seems like they only do this chasing early in the morning...... But, I guess by afternoon, they just stop all together... But, only to resume in the morning..... isn't that something?!!! :lol:


How long can/does this go on?.....


Adreamer2

As long as the fish are alive! Seriously, when the temperature goes down (whether inside or outside), and the day length shortens, spawning is less often. In ponds, it ceases but in aquariums, goldfish may still spawn in winter but perhaps not as often. Spawning also decreases when it gets too hot (above 80-85 degrees F).