Put in 600 & 250 gallon ponds in yard and 55 gallon tank in basement.Currently have 3 koi ,2 comet goldfish, 1 shubunkin goldfish, 4 tadpoles ( ? leopard frogs) 4 trapdoor snails & 1 gara ping ping( Chinese algae eater) in 600 gallon pond.The 250 gallon pond has 6 small comets in it.Thinking of putting a red eared slider in.
55 gallon tank has a gara ping ping and 16 white mountain minnows.thinking of putting in another 55 gallon tank.looking for sugestions on cold water fish etc. for ponds and same for tank that can handle no heater ,probably around 60 degree low in winter .

Koi grow very large so with three in a 600 gallon pond, you're already full there. Six comets in a 250 gallon pond will multiply and also fill out that pond (although a slider would eat some young goldfish). Gara pingi pingi may or may not overwinter in a pond depending on where you live (I've gotten mixed information on that but have gotten reports they do harass goldfish and koi). So, your ponds probably are pretty full. For a pond or aquarium, there are a number of choices for cooler water fish aside from goldfish and koi. These include orfe (need at least 1000 gallons for a few of those fast moving fish; mine are 1.5' long and great), rosy red and fathead minnows, mosquito fish (may be nippy or reproduce like mad), and other native fish. See my page at http://www.fishpondinfo.com/misc2.htm for more information.

If your minimum temperature is only 60 degrees (the other fish I mentioned can go down to freezing), then you can add in some tropical fish such as rosy barbs, guppies, white cloud mountain minnows, zebra danios, common plecostomus, paradise fish, and others (there are many) that can take it down to 60 degrees F.

Your responce is very helpfull.I've been a bit confused by looking at about 50 websites for info.Pond temp.which was in question will be whatever it is the West side of Baltimore county.Do you think two 5-6" goldfish and some of your sugestions could co-exist in 55 gal tank or would I deffinatly have a ammonia /nitrite problem?Will probably have questions later on mostly shade pond plants that can winer in pond in Baltimore Md.area.Haven't had time to thoughly check your site on this.Sneaking in some personel time at work.Thanks again for your help.

I live very close to you so the fish that have worked for me would definitely work for you assuming no other variables but local temperatures.

Whether or not you have ammonia and nitrite problems in a 55 gallon depends on how many fish of what size you add. Just two goldfish wouldn't be a problem unless they were huge. It's generally not a good idea to keep other fish with goldfish (my goldfish page at http://www.fishpondinfo.com/gfish.htm links to more information on that). I suggest keeping the goldfish in the ponds and trying some of the smaller tropical fish I mentioned in the tank.

My pond plant pages can be accessed from http://www.fishpondinfo.com/plant.htm
There are a lot of pond plants but if you have a question about whether or not a specific species will overwinter in the Baltimore area, let me know. My ponds are in the sun so I haven't tried myself too much to get shade-tolerant pond plants.

Yes I would like to find species of plants that would overwinter in pond in a mostly shaded area.This is getting to be an expensive undertakeing and I'm trying to keep to mininum recurent costs.

Of the plants I've had, these may tolerate partial shade in our area (Zone 6/7): yellow flag iris, blue flag iris, lizard tail, parrot feather, water celery, arrowhead, arum, sweetflag, marsh marigold, golden club, monkey flower, horsetail rush, watercress, and water forget-me-not.

From my marginal list, also (I've not tried): marsh fern, hardy orchid, flowering rush, melon sword, sedges, and water purslane.

The more shade there is, the fewer plants that can survive. Each pond situation is different so what may work for one person, may not always work for you and vice versa.

you shouldnt have that many koi in a 600 gallon. I have a 2500 gallon and i only can house 5 koi at the maximum.

I agree with you 3 Koi is probably to many for 600 gallons.They are still small 6 to 10".I need to think of finding new home for them and sticking to goldfish for pond.

you should also remove your chinese algae eater. They arent really cold water and they will suck on the goldfish.

Aquarium Center off Liberty Rd. in Md.<Roblyn may know of store since she's in area had big sign on tank "GREAT FOR PONDS".Isee from her site they at least prefer 70 dgree range.I only see him once a month or so .He seems to stay under rock overhangs.I have one in 55 gallon tank as well .Chases off other fish from his area now and then but thusfar no damages.55 gallon has 1-CAE 4-zebra danios 10 white clouds 1-peco 2-rosy barbs,2-apple snails & 2-paradise fish.

I think there is some confusion. The Chinese algae eater and the garra pingi pingi are two different species. The CAE likes it to be pretty warm. I have information on them at http://www.fishpondinfo.com/sae.htm along with the other "algae eaters." The Garra pingi pingi is on my site at http://www.fishpondinfo.com/misc.htm#garra so you'll probably want to read that. I am very familiar with Aquarium Center (the good and bad); I even worked there for a few months in 1996. I too saw the sign "Good for ponds" at the Garra pingi pingi tank. I didn't believe it, and my research has confirmed that they really aren't good for ponds. They don't like it that cold and can harass goldfish even more than CAE's.

I didn't comment on the earlier assertion that Chinese algae eater = Garra pingi pingi because I thought you simply were referring to the fact that the Garra pingi pingi is from Asia and not that it is the species called CAE.

I'll have to think on this one.If I take them back they'll probably just sell to someone else for pond and they'll perish.That is if i can even catch the one in pond.He seldom appears and only briefly.Thanks for your responce though.I saw the CAE's on your site and they look very simular .The ping even has the stripe down side at times.Hadn't seen your Misc.fish page till now.

weel you msaid you have fish tanks so you could try to catch it and you can monitor its behavior.

I don't have any CAE photos on my page but link to pages that do. The photos on that page are of my SAE and false SAE. The CAE is less colorful. Since the Garra pingi pingi is already in the pond, you might as well monitor how he does in there and report back to us as to whether he pesters the other fish or not, helps with algae clean up, and if he survives the winter. I've gotten mixed information so we could use some more research. You could also bring him inside but he'd probably have to be in a tank by himself which requires a lot of time, money, and room just for one fish.

I'll give what little info I can now.I purchased them both in April this year at about 2" long.They are now about 3".I had never cleaned back of aquarium so it was covered with algae along with plastic plants.The Ping I put in 55 gallon tank had all algae cleared out within 3 days.The string algae in pond also disapeared.Not sure if pond string algae was due to Ping or goldfish.Put all in at same time.Bought some algae wafers which 55 gallon ping loves.The only aggresion I saw from ping towards goldfish was when they tried to eat algae wafers.Only rarely see pond ping so can't say much on him.55 gallon Ping also liked eating goldfish pellets off surface once algae was gone.Now have assortment of small fish ,white mountain minnows,zebra danios,rosy barbs and a peco.He and the peco ignore each other but he does randomly charge into the groups of small fish every hour or so and has lightened in color since his home has become crowded.He had 55 gallons to himself for a month or so.Have seen no fin damages on small fish.The ping is the most interesting of my fish since he looks sharkish ,is not shy and stays in the open and seems to delight in air bubbles at times.The ping in pond as I said is elusive and I only see him after he's seen me coming and is in the process of diving under a rock.Will let you know if the spring shows me a ping in the pond.If he starts to showing himself and I can catch him I'll probably bring him in for the winter.Planning on getting a 125 gallon over winter and if I can catch him I'll see how 2-pings in a large tank fair together.

Ok, thanks for the info.