Do you guys believe in fate or desitiny, that you have one purpose in life?

I don't believe in it. I don't like the idea of me not being in control of my life.

i dont't like the idea that i'm not in control of my life either

i believe in fate.

I belive in fate

Hmmm, I'm not sure if I believe in fate. But I don't necessarily think that if you do that means that you think you have no control over your life. Its like if you're a mouse in a maze, there is only so many paths you can take, but the choice is yours nonetheless. I think thats the best way to describe what I mean. I really don't think everything is left up to chance though, there are just to many things that work out in a way that can change your whole life, and although they had a very slim chance of ever happening, they did anyway. When stuff like that happens to me it really makes me think that fate is possible.

its not that i dont beleive it, i just ... well, CANNOT STAND TO THINK ABOUT IT. (dont ask) :ermm:

hahahaha!.......(don't ask me either!!!) :hypersugar: anyway........i don't know if i believe in fate or not........i suppose i have to grow up mentally before i know anything!!!! (that reminds me......i haven't had my daily dose of chocolate!) SEEYA!!!!! :Whirly:

I believe in fate and destiny.

when you think about it, every event up in history has been building up to our birth so you could say that has something to do with fate

fate only exists in your mind. so if you don't believe in it, it doesn't exist for you. i of course do not believe in it.

obviusly ya dont, otherwise you wouldnt talk about it like its mouldy cheese.

lol =p well lets say the human race was wiped out. fate would be gone too. you might say that it was their fate to die, but consider that theres no one left to think about fate. it doesn't exist if theres no one to believe in it...

thats a pretty bleak point of view

sry yes it is, lol... but hey, it proves the point.

But you can say the same thing about every thing, faith, feelings and so on.

Hmmm, I don't know if I agree with the statement about fate dying out if nobody believed in it. Its the same question as if a tree fell in the forest and nobody was there, would it still make a noise. The way I think about fate does not relegate it to a human construct or emotion, it exists independently of humanity, like a spritual force, and therefore isn't affected in the least by what humans want or what they think about it. Also its not like fate only effects humans, therefore why would it die out if humans just stopped believing in it? It sounds like I am making a big case for fate, I don't even know if it exists, but I think that if it does its much bigger than just the mindsets of humans, and therefore wouldn't just stop if humans didn't think about it. Its kinda like saying if humans died out God, or religion would end because there would be nobody to believe in it anymore....I don't know, the more I think about this the more new possibilities come into my head, and I need to go to bed.

i dont know how to use the quote button, but i think its a pretty cool point of view...
kinda the sorta thing id say.

yea i have to agree with lexus on that.

and to do the quote there a quote button at the top of each person's post.

sometimes i belive u do stuff on earth u die and after a while u are forgotten...

thats my exact standpoint on time.......


:wub:
Hugs!!*****
:Whirly:

my point exactly. everything untangible exists in the human mind. like the past. you can change the past, despite what people may tell you. if someone knows info about a point in time.... if they die and that info isn't passed on then that time period is wiped from existence.

I understand what you're saying, but if somebody dies before passing knowledge on it doesn't mean that the people in the info never existed, it just means it isn't known that they existed. For example, if I witness a crime but never tell anybody, that doesn't mean that the crime never happened.

You just jumbled all that up I only said part of that, I was just making a statement about fate, destiny and religion all being in the same boat. It's the same thing as saying if everybody just stopped believing in those things all at once it would disappear, what you used is different because it is physical and the others are thoughts.

Let me clarify about that quote I used. I was referring to the latter part :

my point exactly. everything untangible exists in the human mind. like the past. you can change the past, despite what people may tell you. if someone knows info about a point in time.... if they die and that info isn't passed on then that time period is wiped from existence.

by designman. But I think what blkwdw13 just said is interesting too. If you explain something as big as religion and fate in one way, shouldn't it also be able to explain simple physical things. In other words if your proposing a way of explaining existence it should also be true of physical, material existence, in my opinion anyway. You can't have one set of rules for one part of existence and life, but not have it pertain to all areas of life.

Yes that's true, but I was only using what you said as an example, like some one getting killed there's always the dead body, some one stealing something it's always missing those kinds of examples. Where as fate and destiny and religion ( I'm just using it as an example) if somebody forgets about it like with amnesia how can you prove to them that it exists.

how was i talking about something physical... i said untangible.

u have knowledge... it exists. if that knowledge were wiped from ur mind, then the murder never happened, its erased from the past. unless somehow, someone find evidence.

that where physical things differ from mental things in our minds. if there are no humans, there can still be physical objects, am i right? however... if humans do not exist, there is no one to create things like the "past", the "fate", "religion". they simply don't exist. physical things exist in the universe and are independent of humans. take for example, the time period the earth was created... we have theories of how that happened, like the Big Bang, but until the truth is discovered, that event never happened.

That is what I'm saying, if they find the evidence it exists.

I think we are agreeing on this but we keep expanding it to include other stuff, the list could just go on and on.

oh. lol. oops :lol:

why do we all live ive been thinking to myself wat r ur reasons?for all we kno we don't know when we die y do u keep living? so when u die u hav memories to think of, why......
(sorta odd post made me think)

Wow, I think this is a really good thread that makes you think. Okay after going back and reading everything again (it gets confusing) heres what I think. I get what blkwdw13 means when he says if fate is forgotten, like somebody who believes in it gets amnesia, how can you proove to them it ever existed? That makes sense to me and I agree with you that you couldn't proove fate because it is intangible.

But as far as designman's theory about "if you don't know about it or can't explain it, it doesn't exist" makes no sense whatsoever to me. Like when he says "physical things exist in the universe and are independent of humans. take for example, the time period the earth was created... we have theories of how that happened, like the Big Bang, but until the truth is discovered, that event never happened." Thats totally ridiculous. The Big Bang theory isn't that old, so by your logic all the people and things that existed before the Big Bang theory was formulated didn't exist?!

I'm not arguing with you that mental constructs don't shape our reality, I totally agree that the way you perceive something effects how you see the world, but that doesn't extend to your ignorance of a fact being powerful enough to unmake things. That was a little confusing, in other words, lets say I don't understand the Big Bang theory, just because I don't get it doesn't mean that it didn't happen, it also doesn't mean that all the stuff the Big Bang created dosen't exist.

I think I get what designman is saying, that if people don't know about something it has no mental signifcane to them and therefore is completely irrelevant or unimportant. But just because you don't know about something does not negatethe fact that it actually happened! For example during WW2 most countries didn't realize the horrors that were going on inside Nazi concentration camps, they only realized how bad it was after the war was over. So does that mean that while the world was ignorant of the truth people weren't being killed and tortured, of course not, they were, we just didn't know about it.

Also people keep saying "untangible", thats not a word. Its "intangible". Not to be all anal about it, but just to let you all know who didn't know.

As a final word on this I don't want anybody to think I am attacking them, especially designman or blkwdw13 since I reference them so much. On the contrary I am impressed with how they articulate their opinions and I am really enjoying this debate

no its not ridiculous. think a bit more on it. no. i said that event, the big bang, never happened. fate and everything else thats intangible (thx for correcting me) was brought into this universe by humans. humans are gone --> no fate, no past, etc. but there can still be physical objects.
no i'm not saying that things are completely irrelevent and important if you don't know about them. Mental things are stored in the minds of humans. The "past" never would have existed if it weren't for humans. I know what your thinking, this is not possible, but its the truth. We ourselves and our minds are the foundation of these intangible things. Imagine yourself as a computer, if a file is deleted, its gone. you have no memory of it, its no longer stored. its gone. and it never existed.

you're apparently not understanding me. Yes, its not fact that destroys things. its the destruction of information in your mind that destroys facts (which also falls in the same category of intangible)
Think about it a little more.... and if you still can't get it... well what can i say, too bad. its the truth, except it or not, its up to you emeraldartemis, if you can come up with a better explanation of fate then feel free to say it.

Thanks for the clarification on your argument designman. I think I get your points now, but that doesn't necessarily mean that I agree ^_^

As I have stated before, I think that if fate does exist its a major force of the universe. Just like a lot people argue that humans minds are to basic to really comprehend God, I think comprehending fate is similar. Because human minds have a hard time believing or understanding things that can't be easily proven or disproven, we don't really understand the whole workings of fate.

Assuming that fate is a purely mental convention and therefore does not exist outside the human mind is rationally problematic . Its similar to the argument, you can't ask somebody what its like to be dead, because once they are dead the can't tell you. What I mean by that is you can't ask somebody what they think of fate and get a true and complete answer, because in order to ask somebody something they must be alive, and as long as we are alive and use our mere mortal brains we are unable to truly grasp the workings and implications of fate.

Basically it all boils down to this; you either think that all intangible things aren't real and therefore don't exist, or you think that they might and accept the fact that sometimes intagible forces are just to big and complicated to be truly understood.

I for one believe the latter. I think there are A LOT of things that humans as of yet just don't "get", but that doesn't mean they aren't real and powerful things or forces. 300 years ago if you had talked about germs making people sick you would have been called insane because there was no germ theory at that time. But now we know that germs do exist and they are the reason that people really get sick. For millenia germs went about on their merry little way making people sick and nobody knew about, but now we understand that was what was really going on.

Who knows maybe in the future fate will be understoof, although I doubt it, and then they will look back on all the silly deabtes people in the past had about it. If fate is real it is a governing principle of reality and therefore doesn't need to rely on humans to give it relevance. If a tree falls in a forest it still makes a noise, even if no body heres it.

Thats my view and I'm sticking to it! ^_^

ok, heres the deal with intangible forces.
1) you accept it. it exists
2) you don't accept it. it doesn't exist for you.
they are not too big and complicated, they were spawned by our mind and they are as big as we let them become.
i never said they aren't real. their existance depends on the human race.

thats the problem, people are trying to understand something that they already understand. fate is real and its not real, it varies from person to person.
Ok. and your still thinking that if something happened but no one knew about it, it still happened. no it never "happened." the timeline of things happening is created by humans, and we call it, "the past." therefore it never "happened."
think if the past was a line of string. you cut out one section and destroy. That section is no longer there. it no longer exists as part of the line, or the past. so alright if you're sticking to your view, then so be it. Mankind has a tendency to just say "this looks complex, i don't understand it," when in truth it is really simple. How hard can it be to understand something that you have created. Its like inventing a game. then afterwards saying you don't know the rules to it.

Designman, you are a worthy adversary in debate, but thats partly because I disagree with you so ardently. I think we will just have to agree to disagree. I think its rather arrogant to assert that humans even have the capibility to erase events from history. Like when you talk about the string metaphor you mention if you humans went and cut out chunks they wouldn't exist anymore. Denying something's existence doesn't negate the material reality of the matter. Its like the ostrich who sticks his head in the sand when faced with danger thinking to himself if I can't see it it doesn't exist. I also thiink its a bit presumptious to assume that humans "created" fate, just because we talk about it doesn't mean we created it. But since fate is intangible there really is no way to ever proove concretely its existence or absence, because there are good points for both arguments. Like I said, we'll just have to agree to disagree. But I respect your argument, and thats rare for me, usually when people disagree with me I right it off as them being stupid, but I have to say that you presented your opinion in a way that really made me reconsider my own. And trust me, coming from me thats the highest form of flattery because nobody ever gets me to change my opinions. ^_^

yes, humans created fate. the only reason it exists is because we understand it. do dinosaurs, gorrilas, or any other animal/plant or organism understand "fate"?? no. if humans did not exist, fate would not either.

Material reality? its not material... its information, a mental creation. Danger comes in the form of something physical. physical does not equal mental. besides even if you want to look at it from a mental point of view, it wouldn't work anyways... the ostrich KNOWS there is danger, that IS why its sticking its head in the sand.

Hmmm thats funny. The last time I talked to an animal he couldn't tell me if he undrestood fate or not....how the heck do you know what animals can and cannot understand?

You can infer this from the lack of many other mental attributes thatonly humans posses. Are any animals gay? no. Do they understand love between a male and female? not even that, seeing as how they mate when they please.
These are some general levels to classify mental atributes:
Reaction: simple processes of life, understood by simple animals
Emotion: understood by more complex animals, the more complex, their brain... the more emotion they possess.
Creation: the ability to create mental objects in ones mind. Humans are the only organisms with this ability.
But... if you'd like to continue living in Lala Land where all the animals and trees have feelings too, then feel free to.

Wow, I made this topic and never read it....fate means you have no control at all that's why it's fate I forgot the word that means you have control but fate means no control and it's predetermines
1. a. The supposed force, principle, or power that predetermines events. b. The inevitable events predestined by this force.

That's the smartest thing I've read all day :) well 2nd smartest

YOU ARE CONFUSING ME!

ones life is not predestined to follow a set path, you choose your own path in life. fate is just a word made up by people to excuse their actions and what happens to them in life.