OK, looking at the prospect of painting 100 each of Zombies, Ghouls and Skellies (so I can run various builds) I want to kill myself. At a serious type tournament, that requires fully painted official GW models, would I be allowed to do the following:

I have a unit of 20 Skellies to start the game, during the game I increase the unit to 40 skellies through Invocation of Nehek (obviously this means one or more of my vamps has Lord of the Dead). Can I keep the front rank of my models (with the command group) and then sub in a very nice graveyard diorama with a few skellies on it that takes up the next 4 ranks, and then use 15 skellie models for the last 3 ranks?

Obviously in friendly games I can do whatever I want, but I was wondering if this would float in a "real" tourney (in local tourneys I go to it's fine to do).

I don't see how that would be a problem. I for sure would not have any problem whatsoever if my opponent did this.

Nor would I... however I might be annoyed if you did bring a 100 skeletons in a box......

It won't be a problem, and if it looks good it will probably get you a bonus in presentation points (if there is some).

Just don't make it too big, so you can always remove the right number of models without issues like "Okay, theres actually 10 guys left in the unit but I can't remove any more models so these dice show how many are left..."
Thats just asking for issues.

If anything it should get you bonus points. Nothing should make an opponent happier than hearing "don't worry, I'm not going to add raised skellies one by one" in a time-limited game. :lol:

I'll just chip in with a dissenting voice. Not that I personally care very much other than the slight annoyance that people with powerful rules feel a need to cop out.

You WILL find people who will have issues with this. I've seen and heard them. Especially in a ultra competitive environment you are asking for trouble eventually. With luck you'll face 5 decent people. But be prepared that you will meet that one person...

I was going to come back to edit in the same unfortunate sentiments. In the real world, there will be people out there who will just view it as an excuse to dock your soft scores somehow or get into a rule argument, accuse you of cheating...etc. The spirit of the game is already pretty strained at competitive tournies, and this is a great example of something that normally nobody would have a problem with and some would even like... yet at a tourny would be seen as a guy in your semantic armor.

I think you're better off using the unit filler for the first few ranks or as part of your original 20. The rules are pretty specific about people needing models to keep raising, so you'll raise fewer eyebrows if you use the filler as part of your army 'presentation.'


Personally, I have no problem with unit fillers, but I do have a problem with people growing busses without the models. But I believe a unit filler should add to the look of the unit, not just be purely a substitute for models.

I offer as an example, this unit diorama I did as a commission:



There are 4 ghouls total on this diorama meant to represent 10 models - seems a bit thin, right?

The guy I did this for actually has 140+ ghouls painted and waiting in reserve. Point being, he's not getting around any rules, he's just trying to make his regiments more interesting. That's the right way to go about it, IMO.

Unit fillers for all armies are fantastic. They're great opportunities to add character to your units and showcase some interesting modelling ideas, while serving the dual purpose of using few models to fill more space. I use a few in all of my armies if I can think of viable ways to work them in, and there's never been an issue in all my years of tournament Warhammer. I've been playing VC since 5th and VC are the one army where unit fillers aren't just suggested, they're actually expected. A few undead rising from the ground on a 40mm or a regimental base, a gravesite, or just some zombies crawling on the ground, it all works for me.

Honestly, if someone complains about unit fillers, then they're likely someone who would have complained about something else in the absence of your unit fillers anyways.

- Larry

Agreed. Unit fillers are great and add character.

Beasts of chaos players just don't get very much opportunity to add them considering their lack of ranked units. I suppose a pulled idol or something in bestigors would work....but then you'd be using bestigors. :P

Thanks for the opinions so far, I guess there's no official type ruling though? As in, in a GW GT Tourney circuit last year could you be disqualified for using a filler?

What I will do, in case I run into a total asshole, is I will have enough zombie, ghoul and skellie models on hand in case he complains, but I will be doing nice fillers along the lines of Happy Scrappy's excellent ghoul diorama, and I hope my fillers will be mostly appreciated by my opponents.

Also, I was thinking that they would speed play a bit in terms of placing models as I increased unit sizes, I'll always have enough "loose" ranks that I can properly remove casualties.

One more question now that I'm thinking about it, is it OK if I'm casting 5 IoN in a row on the same skellie unit that I write down the results of each cast and add all the models when I'm done casting it, in order to save time? I would think there's nothing wrong with this either, as long as my opponent can openly verify what I'm writing down for results...seems like doing it spell by spell would waste precious minutes in a tourney.

im working on a minotaur on 50mm base to fill in for 4 ungors :) I think it will look good

an additional couple of suggestions - the infantry bases that are designed to have 4 models across really do make horde play so much better!!!!! I couldnt resonably play my skaven wiithout em

Skellies - if you have to paint that many skellies/ghouls etc you should REALLY consider either an airbrush or at least the new gw spray gun. HEck I could paint 100 assembled skellies to decent tabletop in a weekend NO problem. Spray them scorched brown. Spray again from straight on in bleached bone do not worry about covering the undersides of anything this will be your deepest shadow spray lightly from slightly above with denheb stone - this will be your highlight and should be misted over the whole model turning them fairly light but not a solid colour. Once this is all dry spray with gryphonne sepia. Once dry use a brush to darken a few areas with devlin mud and you have decent bone with nil effort.

Ghouls - Prime white - Spray lightly with tallarn Flesh/denheb stone or a mix of both (doing all three will give your units more variety and you wont even have to change paint jars mid job! ) spray them with random mixes of devlin mud mixed with either thrakka green or leviathan purple or asurman blue. Trust me - this works pretty well. You can then go on to paint eyes/teeth/loincloths at your leisure.

James

I did a VC army with spray 'cream' paint (bleached bone essentially) and dip.

Very very quickl

No, you do not get disqualified at GT events for using unit fillers. I attended Baltimore in 2005 and this past November 2008, and used armies with unit fillers both times, and I scored something like 5th highest in army appearance at Baltimore to boot.

- Larry

Just pile up the skellies as you cast and then rank them once you're done. That way your opponent still gets an 'idea' of how much chaff is being produced without slowing down the game or forcing you to scribble notes.

Most VC players I know aren't too worried about grabbing models by the handful since they've invariably dipped or dry-brushed most of their reserves. If that's not you, then you may want to stick with your notepad :)

Or just pick them up and place them near the unit. Rank them up after the magic phase(or when you're done... *shrug*).

It might, but its a real issue with template hits. Unit fillers just dont work in skirmishing units in that regard.

btw, what the heck is your avatar? It that a miniature??

In that regard, it is still legal but the player with the skirmisher can´t take advantage of their special rule, so I don´t see many opponents being pissed about it.

How do you rationalize using unit 'filler' when the unit normally has open spaces all over the place?

Sorry, but I think its a bad idea, both in presentation and gameplay.

Because if you had them on separate bases you could still always move them in a very tight formation. I still wouldn´t do this myself, but I wouldn´t be bothered if I faced it.

However, I might have a harder time figuring out why the mino is supposed to be ungors and not gors if he were in the herd.