So, say that I have a khorne wargor in a herd 9" away from..oh, I don´t know, a greater demon. If I choose not to charge with the herd, don´t roll a 1 on unruly but finds out that the character is within charge range I have to charge with him. So far so good.

But here comes the tricky part. When a character wich is ITP joins a non-ITP unit he loses ITP until he leaves the unit. Considering the S&S-FAQ I would assume that the character don´t leave the unit until you actually move him. So am I right assuming that my khorne wargor would have to take a terror test if he charges by himself? If so, if he fails, does he run by himself or does the whole unit run?


Or I am just missing something... :unsure:

That's a good point!

I think it's like you say, the frenzied boy loses ITP, since it doesn't seem to me there's written in any point of the frenzy description that a frenzied unit/character cannot ever lose the ITP.

hehe, thats a funny rules artifact :P

And since he don´t leave the unit until after the terror test, would that make the whole unit flee? It seems pretty weird, but what do you other rule-dudes say?

I think so. I can't recall the page now and I'm too lazy to turn my chair and grab the book (:lol:), but I think the whole unit flees.

I can just imagine it

Wargor: "grrr.... treeman must die!"
Foe-render: "Don't do it, man! He'll kill us all, run for our lives!"

I'm not so sure...looking at the character and psychology rules, nothing is covered there, nor is it specifically addressed in the normal terror rules. Just refers to the unit failing the terror test having to flee. In this case, the unit taking then failing the test is the character, not the herd. Therefore, the frenzied khorne character has to flee from within the herd upon failing the terror test.

If it were fear...the character would be stuck in place and wouldn't leave the unit, and the unit would be bound to the speed of it's slowest model (aka...the character).

Yeah, but the ld test is thrown before movement of any kind is done. So the herd ans wargor would flee if they fail

Quite hug and kissed up :P, but thats a bit same as failing unruly against terror

The only thing I can come up with that could relate to this is the FAQ ruling on Stand & Shoot at characters charging out of units.

You stand and shoot while the character is in the unit, (assuming they have the range to the unit), and Stand & Shoot occurs after you take the test, since you test as soon as you find whether you are in range to charge or not.

I'm not 100% sure on when the Psych test is taken but that's my understanding. Its not like any of the charging rules are properly clarified in terms of order...hopefully in 8th Ed.

Agree there - the character and the unit ARE the unit until the character charges out. So the unit would take a terror test, and upon passing, the character leaves the unit. Upon failing, the whole unit falls back.

My interpretation is that the character is a unit regardless (protected from being targeted by being in a rank and file unit), and the unit with the character is another unit.

In the case of the stand and shoot ruling, it's because the shooting can't be at the character until he leaves the unit.

I am surely not an authority on it but I would imagine that the Unit would not test and flee. there is no clear cut on the rules so most of the time we are left to use our imaginations. If a character wants to charge out at some scary dude I doubt his boys are gonna stop him since they have nothing to do with it really. just sit back and drink in how insane their leader is. I mean these are the BEASTS they would be hungry to see their leader succeed or fail against such a foe.

Then again it could be interpreted any other way

you know what this means!

roll a D6

This is where I agree. Since you take the test to be able to declare the charge, you are still with the unit when taking the test.

I think the difference is who is actually charging it. Remember he does not lose ITP from frenzy, he retains it even when in a unit that doesn't. He simply does not follow the rules of it. It is just that he simply must follow the unit he is attached too, thusly for the purposes of fleeing the unit fleeing will cause the hero to flee. That said when he charges, it is him alone that is charging, not the unit. You test for who is charging. So in my opinion if it is just him charging then he will not have to test.

That's my interpretation.

Where is this rule? :)

He explicitly loses ItP while in a unit which isn't ItP, as per the Character Psychology rules.

Psychology Section: Frenzied troops are ITP

Character Section: "A Character that is immune to psych and joins a unit loses it as long as he is with them. If the character leaves the unit by declaring a charge, he automatically regains his Immunity (including during that charge)"

I interpret it as this: For the purposes of this, when the character is in the unit, he is treated as part of the unit. That said I would be curious as to whether a khorne Wargor in a herd, when the herd fails a fear test during being charged would be immune or hit on 6's. To me it seems like it should still be immune, but per the rules that may not be true.

That said the immunity is always there, but because it's the unit involved, not the character, that's where we sit on that. When its solely the character involved it becomes painfully obvious that this isn't a problem because he is the one charging, not the unit.

Wow....next time I need to check a page again before citing it. You're right that he regains it by declaring the charge. Good catch. No terror test for the Wargor.

As for when the herd fails a fear test, the character lost ItP, so he's hitting on 6's.

In our case a character DOES NOT declare a charge, thus not leaving a unit. The unit declares (and fails) charge, dragging away the character, who haven't left it.